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2015 Football Forum

Written by: on Thursday, January 1st, 2015


Are you ready for some football?

Welcome to the official forum on high school football for the 2015 season.

During the off-season let’s talk about players, recruiting news, teams and everything about high school football.

During the season each week let’s talk about match-ups and how teams did. Let us know what player(s) stood out each week.

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544 Responses to “2015 Football Forum”

  1. WesternPAFootball - Your # 1 Source for High School Football in Western PA says:

    […] 2015 Football Forum […]

  2. Kmac says:

    Thank you, Mike S for the further explanation on Meadville.

  3. Billy Splain says:

    No idea

  4. Mike F says:

    I asked before, but anyone know why D10 won’t release Farrell so they can go back to D7? I don’t understand why someone would want to be with someone that didn’t want to be with them.

  5. Mike S says:

    The answer to the Meadville being 5A, then 4A and moving up to 5A is this. The enrollment #’s were reported wrong originally, mistakenly counting Cochranton’s enrollment (which is in the same school district). Once those numbers were subtracted Meadville went from 5A down to 4A, but chose to play up in 5A.

  6. Billy Splain says:

    nah, has more to do with getting teams out/in..PIAA doesn’t care about the tourist stuff because they don’t make money on it

  7. G-man says:

    Think PIAA spreading over three days is so more fans spend more time doing touristy things in Hershey. In the last few years the start times games have been six hours apart. AA started at noon, 4A at six. 4A could have started at 4/4:30.

  8. Billy Splain says:

    Charley, had you just discussed the ball and rules about football you’d have been ok. Both our sites are getting flooded with comments about recruiting and THAT is not what our sites are for. We exist to promote a positive forum/platform to acknowledge the great efforts and play of PA High School teams, players and coaches as well as deliver any news/info that is pertinent to the sport. Unfortunately, we’ve had to make a difficult decision to remove such posts as, whether you agree or not, when you put down the accomplishments of a team because of the type of school they attend, you are indeed insulting the efforts of those players. Example of why: Charlie and his classmates started at bishop football school in 7th grade. Maybe Johnny came in 10th grade due to whatever reasons, lets say needed new atmosphere to succeed. Instantly, because he’s a decent player, recruiting talk starts…he’s one of may two players that came in, but the talk continues…well, you have now just insulted every player on that team.
    This will no longer be a forum to come to and air out grievances non stop. We are in no way trying to make people stop coming and commenting. What we are doing is trying to encourage positive talk about the players and teams. We recently had eight teams lay it all on the line after a long, tiring and hard fought season and what did we have? Non stop bitching and complaining which led to chest thumping and just flat out ugliness. There’s your answer, in long form. Thanks for coming to our site and PLEASE do so as often as you wish! Just be respectful.

  9. Charley says:

    So, this isn’t an open forum? I noticed my post from yesterday was promptly deleted? Is there a reason why?

  10. Kmac says:

    Thank you Billy, they are indeed 5A.

  11. Billy Splain says:

    Central Tech, Conneaut, Fort LeBoeuf, Franklin, General McLane, Grove City, Meadville, Oil City and Strong Vincent elected to move up to Class 5A.

  12. Kmac says:

    Billy Splain

    Billy, I am building my matrix for the (new) 6 classifications on excel for future use on various articles. One question about the 14 teams that you have listed as “playing up”. Meadville, D10 is listed as going “5A” on your list, but appears on the PIAA classifications list for 2016-2017, etc. as already 5A at 477 male classifying enrollment.
    The question is did they choose to go 6A; or did they just appear in error?

  13. paul sausmann says:

    Congrats Hickory on putting three kids on the all-state list. Can’t wait to watch Chuckie Carr next season. Good luck to Andy Pryts hope you are blue and white next season.

  14. Billy Splain says:

    will be a couple weeks

  15. Colin says:


    Any idea when brackets may be in place for the new 6 classes?

  16. Billy Splain says:

    no idea..will look in to it but going to guess it has something to do with attendance

  17. Colin says:

    Sorry for so many questions. I just saw the 6 class championship set for Hershey next season. What thought went into a Thursday game?…not a fan whatsoever.

  18. Billy Splain says:

    all that is needed is a majority vote. Different districts have different amounts of vote according to size but If I’m not mistaken the board of directors does vote on such issues, one member from each district. I AM from the east and didn’t really hear much bickering about the philly schools coming in…my opinion, they belong.
    As for other changes, they’ll wait and see how the next season plays out..then maybe suggest some tweaks and changes for the following 2 year cycle..I know one that Lombardi was hoping for was super 700 and 5 even classes up to 699 boys….and you are correct, when people of a district have a problem, their district rep should be the first stop…the names are listed on the PIAA site. I may be one of few, but the PIAA DOES have the best interests of the players and schools in mind.

  19. Colin says:


    Also, I can’t speak for the west but I know many people on the eastern side did not want the PCL in. They may have voted them in but didn’t really want them.

  20. Colin says:


    Interesting article. I noticed right away it was from 1993. I remember there was talk back then but I knew it would go nowhere. Its also interesting that you said each district votes. Everyone knew what goes on in Philly and they still voted them in. Makes all the bellyaching that goes on all the more interesting. When I tell people to petiton the PIAA and complain if they don’t like it they should actually go to their own district people and ask them why they voted the way they did…couple of questions tho….did the vote need to be unanimous for them to gain entry? Also…you mentioned more changes are coming….don’t leave me hanging spill it!!! lol

  21. Billy Splain says:

    Colin, I’m not sure who you mean when you say “they” referring to the PIAA…everything is voted on by reps from EVERY district..that is who THEY are…as for the former “regime” he is gone. The new president, Bob Lombardi, is doing a good job and wants to see changes. It takes time and it will, but I can tell you more changes are in store for PIAA football. I have a lot of confidence in the way Lombardi is guiding the districts. I would also like to point out that almost everyone, including the wpial, wanted to see Philly leagues in the PIAA. Here is an article I found: click here

  22. Mike S says:

    All those public school, former AAA D10 teams that were 4A in the new 6A classification expected that Cathedral Prep would end up in the new 5A. But some work of magic, Prep ended up with enrollment of 397, the exact number that would make them the largest 4A school. So, all the other new 4A D10 schools (except Warren) moved up to 5A just to get away from Prep and be able to compete for a D10 championship without having to play a private school that some believe has the game rigged.

  23. Mike S says:

    Paul, a nice way of summarizing the debate. “Its sad they can talk about their accomplishments but we can’t talk about how they achieved their accomplishments.”

  24. Colin says:


    This is the 2nd thing today that we agree on. We need to stop doing this lol…amen to you.

  25. paul sausmann says:

    Congrats SCA on being the only public school champ out there. Great job.

    Guys I’m off this forum for now. I simply can’t waste time over private/parochial school fans that come on here and talk all the smack, thump their chests, and actually try to convince free-thinking public school people that they actually belong in the PIAA and should be allowed in different classes other than the new 6A (ala Imhotep in 4A LMAO, Prep in 3A, Wood, etc…). Its sad they can talk about their accomplishments but we can’t talk about how they achieved their accomplishments. I for one am not into the one-sided arguments and tired of the “Jerry Springer” mentalities.

    For those that have been getting/trading games w/ me, keep my email as I will get the new/updated list out January 12. Have about 100 games to add already w/ more coming in after the holidays.

  26. Colin says:


    Can’t argue with much of what you said. However I will disagree with your myth comment. You remember what former PIAA commits Brad Cashamn said don’t you? “With the PCL we can now have a true state champion”. If that doesn’t say this is what they want I’m not sure what else does. Now maybe this current regime isn’t all too thrilled. That’s possible. But the PIAA new what they were getting in bed With. The problem is we can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube. At least it isn’t the PCL that taking the brunt of it this year. Heck they didn’t even have a team in the finals lol.

  27. Billy Splain says:

    Colin, this is a myth. It’s not what the PIAA wants…it’s what they are stuck with. So many people don’t realize it would take an act of legislature to separate the schools. Even if they did, it would create a super league like they have in NY and the quality of public schools won’t change. As for the charter situation, you are correct..however, they do have advantages but only in Philly. There really isn’t a lot anyone can do about the situation….except this, train harder…work harder..find a way

  28. Colin says:


    Nice rant but it’s not gonna happen. This is the way the PIAA wants it.

    Mike F. Imhotep is not a private school. Tho it has a charter designation it is a public school. Imhotep may only take students from the Phila SD just like every other Phila public school like Frankford or George Washington etc.

  29. SC says:

    Mike F,

    3 out of the 4 champions are Private, 4 out of the 6 teams in hershey are private, but Public schools drastically outnumber private, there’s a huge advantage to the recruiting private schools do, maybe at the single A level there is a competition, but when it comes to AAA and AAAA public schools cannot compete on the same level consistently and to not separate them is to ignore the biggest problem facing Pennsylvania high school sports, nowadays instead of celebrating teams of kids who worked their tails off to win and compete against teams who played on the same playing field. I want it to get back to the glory days of teams playing for the pride of their towns, with hersheypark stadium packed full of towns who came out to support THEIR team. I am tired of seeing college like private high school programs skating through the playoffs winning on shear talent, no heart, no great coaching, just a bunch of talented kids who care more about how many offers they have than how much it means to play football representing your community and your school and your brothers. Private schools can have their fun, but they should NOT be able to compete against public schools.

  30. Mike F says:


    I am for keeping private and public together, with that said:

    AAAA- if parkland was in the WPIAL they would have finished 6th. Pine Richland, N. Allegheny, Woody High, Penn Trafford, McKeesport. Then I feel State College is better also.

    AAA- TJ

    AA- we know this answer

    A- Farrell or Old Forge

  31. SC says:

    Who do y’all think would’ve won if public and private would have been separated for this years playoffs?

  32. Kmac says:

    Mike F and me888

    Having seen the 2004 championship in person and last nights game via TV, I have to agree; I would still hold the 2004 PCC the greatest team I ever saw! Of course,I have not seen every “great” team by any means. Congrats to the Vikings on tying CB West at 6 appearances and 4 class 4A wins!

  33. Mike F says:


    Without question it is 2004. They had a killer instinct that this 2015 team never showed.

  34. me888 says:

    And we have a definitive answer to the burning question of the 2004 vs 2015 PCC defenses.

    2004 HANDS DOWN!!!

  35. Mike F says:

    Okay I spoke to soon. What is PCC thinking

  36. Mike F says:

    What a bunch of boring games! As far as I’m concerned all this games were won in the first quarter.

  37. Darrin says:

    Don’t matter what level of Football you are playing, who ever turns the ball over more, is the team that will lose. Most telling stat in football. Aliquippa is committing TO’s and SC is not. Can’t help a very good team like SC out. That’s why they will more than likely win this game.

  38. Darrin says:

    You def have a point there.

  39. Colin says:


    I got ya. But the new 3A isn’t the old 3A by a long shot. I think it’s more then reasonable for them to play there. Especially now that they are established as a perennial title contender and more players likely to go there.

  40. Mike F says:

    I’m of the belief that on any given day the State A champ could beat the AAA or AAAA champ. With that said BG could not play an AAA or AAAA schedule and make it far in the playoffs it they even get that far. Not enough depth to play a season at that level. But a one game off, sure though the old are against it

  41. Darrin says:

    I hear you brother, I have just learned in my years as a Coach how hard it is moving up any levels. I’m sure they would do fine in their District, but not in the State or D7. Just my opinion. Well here we go, Aliquippa vs SC bout to go down! Enjoy everyone.

  42. Colin says:


    Thanks for the info. I was hoping Imhotep would move up to 5A…but anyways most of the move ups are to 5A. any idea what that would be?

  43. Kmac says:

    Thank you for the information, Billy. As you said, “not many.” But perhaps, as this is the first classification change in quite some time, it might be better to play in your class and see how it falls out for the first two sessions?

  44. Billy Splain says:

    Teams moving UP: Franklin (5A), Gen.McLane (5A), GroveCity (5A), Imhotep Charter (4A), Meadville (5A), Oil City (5A), Seton-LaSalle (3A), Strong Vincent (5A), Aliquippa (3A), Apollo-Ridge (3A), Berwick (4A), Central Tech (5A), Conneaut (5A), Fort LeBoeuf (5A)
    that’s it boys and girls…not many

  45. Kmac says:

    Billy Splain

    Any official word from the PIAA regarding posting the final classification information with all of the teams choosing to play up in class? My link to PIAA classifications still shows the 4-class 2014-15 and 2015-16 numbers.

  46. Colin says:


    The new 3A level doesn’t really have a ton of great teams. Even now they crush 3A teams like Somerset in the district. So I think they would do just fine at the new 3A level

  47. me888 says:

    PCC, NA, PR, PT (and a few other D7 AAAA’s) would crush Cathedral Prep, and that’s why they moved down to AAA.

    Many long time Prep followers felt going into the season that this would be Prep’s worst team in years. Despite finding themselves in the AAA final, they aren’t as good as any of the 5 past years teams (even the ones that didn’t make it as far).

    As for Farrell vs Cathedral Prep. Prep would mercy rule them.

    As for BG, me have no idea, but me guess would be Prep over BG.

  48. Darrin says:

    Maybe they could contend for their district title. Don’t know all that much bout that district 6.State on the other hand no way! Even as a boarder less Private School, no way in hell they contend on a state level!

  49. Colin says:

    I would like to see BG play up to at least 3A in the new 6 class system. I believe they can handle that and would still be a title contender. If your a good private team you should want to play up anyways.

  50. Darrin says:

    Thank You D11, ridiculous is a very nice way to sum that up!!

  51. D11Guy says:

    BG is lucky Dunmore had confusion when submitting their enrollment, otherwise they would be in A and BG wouldn’t even have made Hershey. Best in the state regardless of class? That’s ridiculous.

  52. Darrin says:

    Trust me the difference in each Class you go up is enormous. They did beat down a Class A public school w 25 kids. You can’t make statements that they may be the best based on beating a class A school. Their is no correlation.

  53. Darrin says:

    BG is a great A Team. There is NO WAY they are the best team in state Eric W, no offense. They are a very good Class A program. You can not compare A Schools w bigger Classes. Technically they are not the best Class A school. That would be Aliquippa who chooses to play up for the competition.

  54. Colin says:

    Eric W

    BG is good. But no chance they beat state level 3A or 4A teams.

  55. Darrin says:

    AAA Game is hard to watch. Imhotep is highly undisciplined and sloppy. ECP can’t complete a pass, or take advantage of prime opportunities. Imhotep will win this game, but I remember now how S. Fayette blew them away. They just have the better assembled cast of All-Stars in this game.

  56. Eric W says:

    As I stated earlier BG just might be the best team in the state regardless of classification..don’t think their will be any beat downs like that with other 3 games..we’ll see

  57. John says:

    Single A football=my line is bigger then yours so I win=snooze

  58. Darrin says:

    Thanks brother. Yes I picked Tep but hope ECP wins , I will always pull for the West teams. Even though they are not Dist. 7 they are from the West. Be surprised if they pull it out, but nobody saw S. Fayette blowing them off the field. I agree bout the picks on the East side, people picking Parkland by 2-3 TD’s, no way I see that happening. That’s why you play the game!!

  59. Leo munley says:

    Darrin, thanks for your input and your superior view and take on the Western teams. I’m going to miss the A game because of my daughters Christmas show but I should arrive in Hershey around 6:00 pm. I can’t wait to be part of that crowd.
    I see that you picked Imhotep but are still rooting for ECP. I would be totally surprised if ECP wins. It will confirm that teams playing together without negative thoughts, win more often than not. Maybe Prep will show up like N. Allegheny did when they manhandled Coatesville for the quad a title a few years ago. That team surprised and impressed me in the way they played. Perhaps, ECP could do the same.
    I’d like your thoughts on the Imhotep. When I first saw the tep’s linemen, I thought I was looking at those huge cartoon type of players – Some were only 16 years old. Seeing a player like that, live, changes a persons view tremendously when he only sees the weight and height of such players on a roster. You know, lots of people talk about school’s that are recruiting players from outside their area- but I think Imhotep’s team is homegrown. The coaches and directors and workers for the Philadelphia. Youth leagues

  60. Darrin says:

    A- BG (Pulling for Farrell though)

    AA- Aliquippa

    AAA- Imhotep (Pulling for ECP again)



  61. Darrin says:

    I’m not in D10, WPIAL all my life. That was about a previous discussion in that post.

  62. paul sausmann says:

    also anyone looking for PCC games from 03′ or 04′ let me know which you are interested in seeing.

    put PCC games in subject bar

  63. paul sausmann says:

    I’d go with the 2004 PCC team also. Loved watching Jarvis in 03′ and 04′. I think his best game I saw live was in 03′ at Heinz with his 5 td performance against Mathews and the USC defense/special teams. The punt return sticks in my mind the most when he basically made the entire USC punt return team look like they were standing still and took it to the end zone.

    @Darrin – what part of D10 you in, anywhere in Mercer??? I follow Greenville and Wilmington a good bit. Greenville another very solid public school from back in the day. Loved Coach Stone’s style of game.

  64. Mike F says:

    I know with States coming this may not be the time, but what is the reason D10 is not allowing Farrell to move back to the WPIAL?

  65. DUKE says:

    Well the end is almost upon us now. Saturday evening at 6:00 PM the Battle of the East and the West in the FINAL Quad A ever game. Pittsburgh Central Catholic (PCC) versus Parkland. I believe that this game will be very, very close at halftime. But unfortunately PCC has the man handling ability to shut down Parkland offense in the air and stub the ground game to a halt forcing one or more turnovers into TD’s. Sorry for the East but my crystal ball tells me the winner is PCC +17

  66. Darrin says:

    d4 fan
    Actually think this is the absolute best match up of the weekend, both great teams w great tradition and fans!

  67. Darrin says:

    They will want to be a little cautious blitzing Jeter the ‘Quips QB, he is extremely fast and athletic. He will take off and be very elusive in open field. That may be a problem for SC to try and man up in the secondary, but they have to risk it or the Quips will run all over them w Kaezon Pugh. West Catholic is a spread team w athletes outside, Aliquippa is a power run team with a D1 kid at RB and very athletic WR’s. The Quips also have a couple D1 OL, people don’t always hear bout the size n physicality up front they have. But SC is a GREAT TEAM, who runs that Wing T to perfection. Aliquippa will have to be disciplined and play their assignments. I am going to stick with the Quips in my prediction, but this in no way is a lock. SC is an excellent team in all 3 aspects of the game!

  68. D4 Fan says:

    Just a comment on the Southern Columbia/Aliquippa game…I don’t know much about Aliquippa, other than knowing they are very good and probably the favorite to win. I do know about Southern Columbia and the big thing with them is their consistency. Defensively they will play their 4-4 with OLBs on the line of scrimmage, effectively playing
    a 6-2, with lots of blitzing. They will try to take away the run and force Aliquippa to pass. If Aliquippa’s OL wins the battle at the line of scrimmage and they can run the ball, they will win. If they can’t, and decide to throw the ball, there will be big plays to be made. With 8 committed to stopping the run, Southern is forced to play man coverage in the secondary and Aliquippa’s athletes will have opportunities to make big plays–if the QB has time to throw. An athletic QB will give Southern fits if they can’t get to him and he’s able to extend plays. West Catholic had this opportunity last week and Southern couldn’t match their athleticism. But WC made too many mistakes and Southern stuck to their game plan and ground out the win in the 4th quarter. On offense, Southern runs the Wing-T and they run it well. To stop it, the defense must be disciplined and play assignment football. Southern got their running game going against WC by running outside with the counter criss cross and speed sweep and took advantage of poor OLB play by WC, who’s OLBs consistently got pinned inside and allowed Southern to run around the end at will. Aliquippa has the better athletes and probably the better team, but they need to play well or they may find themselves in a dogfight. Southern needs a repeat of last week where they play mistake free and stay in the game into the 4th quarter. Looking forward to a great game!

  69. Darrin says:

    I remember u were a PCC guy, actually from right buy the old stadium in Oakland if I remember are conversation from a few years back. Moved up D10 way after college. You are right bout the sign of the times for sure. I work with and I am friends with a member from the ’04 team. He told me that yes they were a damn good team, but he said he had to admit they could not handle the size and speed of ’15 front 7. That was my point that the kids are just too big, fast and strong. Plus I think Totten is content to suffocate you on D, and pound the ball on Offense. I was shocked they came out 5wide to start last week. Like you just my humble opinion.

  70. me888 says:

    PCC 2004

    Heinz 28-0 over Gateway (w/ Justin King)
    PIAA 1 44-3 over Erie McDowell
    PIAA 2 44-0 over McDevitt (w/ Shady McCoy)
    PIAA 3 49-14 over Neshaminy (Nesh. scored late)

    PCC 2015

    Heinz 24-17 over PT
    PIAA 1 19-3 over State College
    PIAA 2 24-7 over Cumb Valley
    PIAA 3 TBD

    Note the point totals and differentials btw 04/15

    2015 has given up more points and 2 to 3 times the total yardage as 2004

    Shady McCoy 25 yards rushing on about 18 carries

    In 2004 both McDowell and McDevit were held to about 100-125 total yards

    Eugene Jarvis was the most electric player on the field, and arguably the best RB in PCC history. Ronnie Jones is very good, but it’s not really close.

    2015 PCC only scored 19 vs St College a week after McDowell hung 40 on SC???

    2004 only trails 2015 in 1 category (D1 Recruits)

    Go figure? Sign of the times me guess!

    2004 Hands down.

    JMO, as always

    PCC alum (from way before ’04 or ’15) ;-(

  71. pcc64 says:

    The difference between the two Central teams is the head coaches : Terry Totten on the current team and Art Walker Jr with Art Walker Sr as his Ass’t head Coach leading the 04 team. I think the 04 staff was more flexible at least offensively. Of course the 04 team had a RB named Eugene Jarvis who scored 5 TD ‘ s in state championship game.

  72. Mike F says:


    I feel you stated the difference best. It was the intangibles of the 04 team that made them better.

  73. Colin says:


    A good question. That 04 team was silly. This year’s team probably has more talent per say but I’ll take the 04. I think the difference is on offense. Both are great. But this year’s squad seems to let teams hang around. When they smelled blood in the water that 04 team out their foot on your throat. Not an expert on either team But that’s the one difference I see.

  74. Mike F says:

    Paul, let’s put it this way. Despite having more individual talent, the 15 team lost a game and still has another game to play. 04 was undefeated and if memory servers me right was the first 16-0 team in PA.

  75. paul sausmann says:

    @ Darrin and Mike – I remember sitting at the 04′ PCC v USC game thinking this PCC team is right up there with the 99′ CB West, 00′ ECP, and the likes. Definitely one of the top five all time teams in PA football history. I still watch a few games from those 03 and 04 PCC teams.

  76. Darrin says:

    @Mike F
    For sure it is so much different now. 04 was my third year coaching, it’s all completely changed. Offense and Defense, but mainly that was when the sport specialization came to play. Started having kids really into year round specific training, 7 on 7 started to grow and catch on. Those two factors are the biggest reason for this “style” today. The athletes are much bigger, faster and stronger. Plus teams doing 7 on 7 as soon as the weather breaks, you can trace all that back to around 04.

  77. Mike F says:


    I may have gotten carried away with them being a 2 TD better team, but I still feel they are better. It is a great hypothetical question, but first things first PCC needs to win this week, to even start this kind of talk. 2nd, isn’t it amazing how much the game has changed in the past 11 years? The passing offenses were just in there infancy back in 04 and most PA programs were I formation power running teams still.

  78. Mike F says:

    Eric W,

    I remember that game between Quippa and wyomissing. Wyomissing won that game congrats to them, but there is no way anybody watched that game and didn’t think Aliquippa was still the better team. Wyomissing did not beat Aliquippa that day, Aliquippa best themselves. How many times did they drive the ball down to the red zone only to fumble or throw a pick. I am not talking about wyomissing forcing Quippa, I am talking about Quippa handing it to them. Again the history books will read Wyomissing forever, but let’s not act like they dominanted Quippa either.

  79. Darrin says:

    @Mike F
    Agree that 15 has the more talented players, even that 04 is the better team. I think that the elite talent on this ’15 team may be the slight edge. But it is a great hypothetical?’s. I don’t know if they are 2TD’s better, especially on this defense. Either way both great teams and great debate.

  80. Mike F says:


    Great question. Imho, and it may seem to contradict itself but I believe that 2015 is the more talented team, but 04 was the better team. Not many of the 04 kids would start over the 15 kids, but as a te I believe they win by two tds. That 04 team is the best team ever in the state championship era imho. Better than the cb west teams, better than ECP, Berwick, NA, etc.

  81. Darrin says:

    I am going to go with the 2015 PCC team, know them both its very close. However I think ’15 team has more weapons and plays a much more physical brand of football. This team plays such a suffocating style of defense coupled with finally spreading the field on offense, while still pounding that run game. Remember a few years ago when PCC had Cosentino at QB, he is now at FL. State they would hardly ever throw, only if They had to. That cost em in the Title game w St. Joe’s, and I think also changed Totten’s philosophy too.

  82. paul sausmann says:

    For those familiar with 2004 PCC team (murray, jarvis, etc..) and this season’s PCC team; which do you think is better???

  83. Darrin says:

    One thing you will notice with Aliquippa’s QB in the pass game, is his ability to take off and run. This kid can fly, he had some huge runs in the S. Fayette game and during the season. They spread you sometimes and go play action other times, but regardless this kid is like a rabbit in the open field. He also has a very nice arm and is very accurate. I look for this to be the X Factor in this game. SC did a nice job in the West Catholic game, but WC was a spread team that likes to throw. They really got after West’s QB as a result and turned it into Sacks and Picks. The Quips run so effectively and are very efficient with the pass, this is the reason I agree the pass will be the difference. Aliquippa is not a spread, pass first team. They are a power run team with great athletes and a QB who can make you pay for loading the box or getting blitz heavy.

  84. Leo munley says:

    My picks for the weekend: I picked BG way back in Oct. to be in the state A game but with trouble playing against Clairton. Well Clairton is out so I’m going with Farrell. I think they have the team to beat BG. I haven’t seen them play but with the teams they beat during the year and in the playoffs,and what I heard from trusting people on this site- they could win- Farrell – the only team all year I think has a chance against BG.
    I’m going with Aliquippa based on the teams they beat in WPIAL, and the team they are, namely that they play like a team- good, hard nosed football- Like So. Col. does but I think SC weakness is from the pass. Aliquippa will exploit the secondary and run – I can’t see So.Col. stopping it- they couldn’t against Mountoursville.

    After seeing with my own eyes Imhotep up close, too; they are better than Wakulla Fla. who beat CP early on in the year. Also, ECP was a squeaker over Mcdowell. The way they have been playing- I see IMHOtep winning by 40 – I hate to say.

    Finally, PCC by 19 over Parkland.

  85. WPIAL_1 says:

    Imhotep Charter vs Cathedral Prep – Interesting article

  86. Darrin says:

    @Eric W
    Ya I hear that, people from both sides like to chatter. Honestly with two teams like SC and Aliquippa, they are benchmark programs in PA regardless of Class size. Year in and year out they are very good, self sustaining programs. That’s why I think this is such an awesome match up, because all the tradition and history they both bring. Add in two loyal fan bases and this has the making of a Classic, I just hope it lives up to what I think it may be.

  87. Eric W says:

    @ Darrin

    Yeah,I was just talking about the Quips from 2012,when I said “unbeatable”. There were a lot from both sides of the state that said that team was the best “Aliquippa” team ever,scored almost 750 pts that year and Wyo shut them down..was just saying be careful with SC..actually I think the team that might be unbeatable this year might be BG in single should be four great games this weekend

  88. Darrin says:

    I do agree that Imhotep has been a team viewed as unbeatable at times. That is a hand picked team of All Stars, tons of talent and D1 athletes. However like Eric W pointed out in 2012 and when they played South Fayette in the Championship Game a few years back, they had the best collection of athletes but we’re not the best team. Nobody gave S. Fayette a chance and they blew Imhotep off the field, that game was not even close. Sometimes it gets overlooked, it’s about who has the best “team”, not collection of athletes. I don’t count any team out this weekend. Four very good match ups, I can’t wait.

  89. Darrin says:

    @Eric W
    I don’t think any team is unbeatable! I do think Aliquippa is the more complete team. I think they are capable of getting it done in multiple ways, very balanced. SC is very good team, fundamentally sound. I think at the end of the day the difference will be the Quips overall athleticism and speed. I have not really heard of anybody counting SC out or saying Aliquippa is “unbeatable”. Quite the contrary, everybody has been saying this is probably the best match up of the weekend!

  90. Colin says:

    Mike F

    Just re-read your post. Yes you can certainly guarantee that for sure loll. My apologies for misunderstanding on the first read….but I will still say I won’t be surprised by any result for sure

  91. Colin says:

    Mike F

    After seeing things happen like they have this year. I wouldn’t guarantee anything. I won’t be surprised with any result this weekend. Teams are too good.

  92. Eric W says:

    Just remember,to all who think it’s Aliquippa who is the better team. Back in 2012 no one gave Wyomissing in D3 a chance against Imhotep in the semi’s(the result,Wyo 35-13)..then Wyo.had to play the “unbeatable” 15-0 Quips who were averaging 50 a game with 6 shutouts! Result,Wyo 17-14 careful,Southern has speed to match!

  93. Darrin says:

    @Mike F
    I agree with you on the picks, my one difference is the AAA Game. I will certainly be pulling for ECP but they have a very tall task ahead of them! Yes your guarantee on the prediction, is a very safe bet!

  94. Mike F says:

    Not much for me to add what Darrin has already said. I do believe that the most interesting match-ups are the two lower class games of A and AA. Must admit that while AAA and AAAA are good match-ups they don’t intrigue me as much as A and AA this year.

    My prediction
    AAAA- Pittsburgh Central Catholic
    AA- Aliquippa
    A- BG

    The absolute no way it doesn’t come true prediction:

    After the games we will hear yet again about the schools that recruit vs the schools that don’t.

  95. G-man says:

    Last year was at the South Williamsport-Pious x game at N. Lehigh & it was about 25 at game time. Went to see Southern-West Catholic Saturday at same venue in shorts! Alas this Saturday looks like normal December temps & long johns will be in order.

  96. Darrin says:

    Yes Aliquippa has always played up. Currently they are right in the middle size wise for Class A. Obviously everyone knows the names that come from Aliquippa, Ty Law, Revis, Gilbert, Ditka Etc. Quips coach Mike Zmanjac is the only coach who has won a State Title as a HC in Football and Basketball, in PA, interesting little piece of trivia. I have coached against the Quips in a 1ST round playoff game 6 or 7 years ago, I was absolutely amazed how hard he gets those kids to play and how disciplined they were. They have a highly intense off season weight program, and overall commitment from the kids. They are not your typical “athletic” team, they can smash mouth you or run by you. Almost all males play football their, they do not offer soccer! The environment at the Pit, is special. The Indian riding the horse and throwing the flaming spear in front of the opponents, is something special. These two programs are PA high school football at its best. I believe as well this is the best game of the weekend, we are very lucky to have such great programs playing each other!

  97. Leo munley says:

    This game Darrin, reminds me of the first Aliquippa vsBerwick game in 1988. That was the first year of states. the whole northeast Pa. we’re psyched about the game. Most of us and I suppose most of the West were wondering the same: who are these teams, what’s his name came out of Aliquippa- it looks like a town on a hill, sort of like our kind of town – Mike Ditka was his name. Jump ahead – it’s So Col instead at double A and not Single A vs Aliquippa at double A and not triple A. It’s the first time playing at that leve for SC. Actually they played at single A for too long but I’m glad they finally made it up to AA. Aliquippa always played up a classification- didn’t they? Well, anyways this is the best game of them all even tough I would like to see Farrel like they were back in the 80s and early 90s. That’s before all the recruiting was happening. A real high school football games from homegrown students.

  98. Darrin says:

    I think that Aliquippa has excellent balance, running and throwing. They are very big and physical upfront, and possess great speed all over. SC def can grind a team down w that ball control Wing T they employ. However the Quips can do the same, Kaezon Pugh their RB is 6’2 220Lbs and that big FB is excellent. They are big and athletic upfront, but they really do damage w Pugh and the FB just getting after you all game. This will be the best RB that SC has seen all year, his combo of size and speed are a rarity. What impresses me most w the Quips is that front 7, the DL is Excellent and the LB’s are all big, fast and very physical. I don’t think that Aliquippa always gets the recognition they deserve for their Physicality! That team is physical and flies to the football! This is going to be a great game.

  99. G-man says:

    If Aliquippa’s coach is as smart as I think he is (out of respect I will not try to spell his name) he should try to slow the game down. I know thats counter-intuitve, but lets be honest, Aliquippa is a small school & it would be better fot their defense if there offense had long, time consuming drives. Southern on the other hand would trade a one play, 75 yard Aliquippa TD, for a ten play, 75yd TD drive of their own, wearing down Aliquippa’s line.
    Also think Aliquippa’s coach said one of the best lines I’ve ever heard. When asked about an upcoming playoff game against Greensburg CC he said “we have a game this week against the Westmorland County all-stars”. Laughed my **s off and he made a fan of me. Coaches know who recruits, I wish more of them would speak up about it.

  100. G-man says:

    I’ve seen Southern three times in the playoffs & while they appear to be weak against the pass that is deceptive. West Catholic had 277 through the air, but Southern had FIVE interceptions. They arent affraid to blitz, sending as many as seven against West Catholic yesterday so that Wests quarterback took a lot of punishment. Also keep in mind that against Montoursville (they impressed me more than West Catholic did) the real difference in that game was a pick six. Can you move the ball through the air on Southern? Yes. Will your quarterback take a beating in the process? More than likely. Aliquippa needs to be able to run the ball & be patient with 4-5 yard gains. West Catholic would pick up 15-20 yards on the ground & then start throwing the ball. Seven of their possesions ended on turnovers. Southern was told that they wouldnt be able to hold up to the speed of Berks County & West Catholic. They didnt try. Instead they pounded it. There were plays yesterday that looked like dogpile on the West quarteback. Even on completed balls there were times when he was being hit by three or four defenders.

  101. Darrin says:

    Good assessment Leo. Aliquippa’s QB can definitely throw and run, without a doubt. He has proven that the last 2yrs, plus he is a Lockdown CB. I think this game will roll back and forth, like a real good boxing match. 2 storied programs with tons of tradition and alumni, make an AWESOME STATE CHAMPIONSHIP! However I think Aliquippa’s athleticism and speed will be the deciding factor, plus their ability to strike very quickly if need be. Those reasons plus they are Dist. 7 (WPIAL) are my reasons, but this is just a superb game the whole way around. Both are the benchmark in PIAA Football with a select few other programs!!

  102. Leo munley says:

    I think So. Col. has a very good offensive line, they’re strong and are genuinely able to keep with their blocking schemes. Whether their target is to move the end and outside linebacker in or out – three lineman are usually there with their sight on the middle linebacker; they seem not to miss that too much. That’s what I saw all three times. They have three backs that are more or less equivalent in rushing yards on the season but are all skilled enough to give defenses trouble in keying on one of them. All or any of the three can move the ball toward the goal. This I think is Aliquippa’s main obstacle; they need to stop the rush so they can minimize the first downs that SC usually gets. On the other hand, I think if Aliquippa’s Quarterback is decent enough to pass- they could score 40 on SC defensive. Aliquippa’s quick backs could also find some daylight in between tackle and end. This is where they are vulnerable to attack. Passing especially.

  103. Darrin says:

    I totally agree with PHIL, do not count them out vs. BG! I think BG is the slight favorite, but Farrell is highly physical and athletic, they are capable of beating BG. Will it happen, not so sure. But I will be pulling for Farrell cause they are from the West and former WPIAL. Actually I think both are from the West, but that’s another conversation!

  104. Darrin says:

    What are everyone’s thoughts on S. Columbia vs Aliquippa? I think this is the crown jewel of Championship Weekend!

  105. Darrin says:

    They are one of the originals who played up, especially in basketball. I actually think some of their mid-90’s Football teams were some of the best ever in Class A. Tradition in Football and Basketball is very rich. I think they left due to travel, and wanted back in for the bright lights of the WPIAL! The mid 90’s teams w Buck Newell and the Kennedy brothers were just down right unstoppable. Great teams and history, used to play in Big 7 w Rochester, W. Beaver. Was an absolute brutal Conf. In 90’s!

  106. "G" says:

    BG will beat Farrell by 21 at minimum!

  107. Phil says:

    I’ve seen them. They are very athletic and fast. They also are fairly big and strong. They do not miss tackles as they usually wrap you up old school by the legs. They do however seem to turn the ball over more than they should and at times appear to be undisciplined as far as taking penalties. They will tackle trying to strip the ball. DO NOT count them out against BG. They beat 2 quality teams coming from behind in Sharpsville and Berlin.

  108. "G" says:

    Berlin, the only time you get a State Championship trophy is to win a State Championship, not by beating Clairton in a simi-final game! Lol!!

  109. Colin says:

    Billy and Darren

    Can you give me run down on Farrell?. It seems like they have a very good football history. What was the reasoning for them leaving the WPIAL?. I know they recently petitioned to rejoin but we’re denied. Obviuosly they have a good team this year. Was wondering if you had a chance to see them.

  110. Darrin says:

    Wow I give all respect to Central Martinsburg, awesome game! They showed up ready to play, they were definitely an under the radar team. Almost pulled it off, great job! Interested to see the title game, I think we will get SC be Aliquippa . How about Farrell vs Berlin, another awesome game. Hopefully tomorrow is a treat as well with PCC vs CV. PCC is the definitive favorite, but this year that don’t Mean anything!

  111. me888 says:

    Leo munley says:
    December 11th, 2015 at 4:30 pm
    @Phil, I’ll be at the Imhotep vs Saucon game. However, I’ll be watching the C. Prep game vs Mac live streamed. Thanks for your thoughts on that game.

    Got the link? Thanks, in advance.

  112. Leo munley says:

    @Phil, I’ll be at the Imhotep vs Saucon game. However, I’ll be watching the C. Prep game vs Mac live streamed. Thanks for your thoughts on that game.

  113. Phil says:

    Hey, if anyone out there lives in the DuBois and surrounding area and you like high school football, you’d be remiss to pass up watching the Prep-McDevitt game!!

  114. Billy Splain says:

    @footballanl: Usually by Jan 1..we are compiling now

  115. footballan1 says:

    When does the all Western Pa team come out?

  116. Billy Splain says:

    I agree Mike, looks to be a great game.

  117. Mike says:

    Billy I really believe that the Central, Aliquippa game is going to be much closer than people might expect. They most definitely have enough speed to contain the Quips offense and to get separation against their defense. If Central plays turnover free football and maybe generates a few turnovers of their own, they can win.

  118. Colin says:

    Everyone makes great points. And all of you are right. But I think this thread has gotten away from the original question that Paul and I were discussing. In the end there likely isn’t a clear cut answer to the question. I guess it’s just a matter of how one looks at it. There could be a kid who isnt a top recruit but turns into one. Kinda like Mike waters of Imhotep. Wasn’t getting a lot of buzz but now he is on lots of schools radars….but hey it’s still good convo. Appreciate the input.

  119. Mike F says:

    Recruiting is the biggest crap shoot there is. How many times have you seen a team where the leading tackler was a 5’10” lb going to a PSAC school but his 6’2″ buddy next to him who takes bad angles, not as much heart and doesn’t fight off blocks well be a P5 recruit? Hell last year Baldwin’s Sterling Jenkins was considered one of the top 3 OTs in the nation. He wasn’t even all conference because he was not that good, but he is 6’7″ with good athleticism so he is a national recruit. He is not the first one like that either. College coaches look at “potential” because they are egotistical and think they can “coach” the player up. Many of better players go to lesser schools because they are a few inches short or a step out 2 slow.

  120. G-man says:

    Thw D3 school with the D1 tranfers was Rowan

  121. G-man says:

    Dominick Bragalone ended up at Lehigh. His junior year at South Williamsport he made 12 visits to Penn State. O’brian leaves & Franklin shows no interest & Rutgers & Lehigh do. In 2000, Jon Veach of Mount Carmel was offered a scholarship to Penn State as a DB, Veach would have accepted if PSU would have allowed him to try out at RB as well, he ended up at Princeton. A few years ago a d3 school in NJ had three former d1 players who transfered so they could play right away. One ended up being the starting QB. He came from Fla. State. Remember Pat Devlin, transfered from Penn State to Delaware. Sometimes a kid is recruited by d1bcs and fcs at the same time & the choice the kid makes has nothing to do with his ability to play the game

  122. SCFan says:

    Ohio State, Penn State, no question, are D1 nationally elite. Teams like Pitt and WV are regionally strong programs. MAC schools may be great goals for WPIAL and Ohio kids, but I know that some Bucknell, Lafayette, and Lehigh recruits who bottled up Toledo and Pitt recruits Friday night.

    But MAC (FBS) over Patriot League (FCS)? You’re kidding me. Get the big picture. They go to college for an education. And the smart players understand (or should be advised) to grasp the balance of being a student-athlete and appreciate the opportunities that their football skills have earned for them.

    Y’know, Army hung with Penn State this year, Bucknell took Army to 4th quarter before a one score loss. All the football is good. Fun to watch and fun to participate.

  123. Mike Smoll says:

    @Colin, keep in mind some kids are getting offers to FBS and FCS schools at the same time, there isn’t a lot to chose between upper FCS schools and even middle FBS kids, just how a recruiter sees a kid. I know a certain Quakertown athlete that has offers everywhere from two ACC schools to Div II. So you guys are splitting hairs.

  124. Colin says:

    We will agree to disagree on this point for sure. In this case a lot of teams would have D1 players then so we would have to dig very deep to answer your question then. Because if being a D1 recruit is the same if you go to Monmouth as if you went to Ohio st thats painting with a very wide brush.

  125. paul sausmann says:

    Colin – that’s you splitting hairs. Villanova and Lehigh are considered D1 b/c there is no longer a D1AA. You have D1 FCS and D1 FBS.

  126. Colin says:


    Your right…only so many scholarships to go around. That’s why D1 schools will only offer scholarships to players they feel can play at that level. Most times a recruit is a 1AA recruit because that’s where his talent level is

  127. Billy Splain says:

    Central isn’t big up front but they’re efficient enough to get the job done. They have 4 or 5 weapons offensively and spread the ball around. Benton is a great athlete at qb who can throw and run. Hoenstine is another multi-use athlete. He can run out of the backfield, catch and run plus he’s also a pretty good thrower himself. Helsel is a very fast, sure handed receiver as well. Knepp is also a fast receiver. When they want to pound the rock, look no further than #5 Damon Langer. He’s a tough, up the middle runner. Defensively they swarm and put pressure on the qb. Cam Norris is always around the qb (12.5 sacks) as is Claar. Helsel is one of the best shut down corners around. Hoenstine and Brice Brumbaugh are as good as it gets on defense. They average about 245 on the lines, about 25 lbs lighter than Farrell but they’re a fast line. I think they match up well and it should be an exciting game. Quips power running vs Dragons wide open offense.

  128. Leo munley says:

    I always thought the D 1recruits in a certain geographical area (south western Pa., for instance) and whether that area is combined with Ohio, West Va. Etc., as in a region, is, let’s say, 40 D1prospects. That they are these type specifically for colleges to recruit by way of their scholarships, and these 40 are to fill around 35 scholarship opportunities given to 1a classification and the rest (5 D1prospects) would have to go to 1aa classification. This shows – if I have it right that the 5 that would be classified as 1aa does not make them a lower recruit who has to end up at a lower school like Villanova for instance rather than Pitt. It’s just means that there are only so many scholarships to the kids who all could play in Division 1 but are recruited equally??? By division 2, too.

  129. Mike says:

    Central Martinsburg has lots of team speed. They will most definitely be able to keep up with the athletes Aliquippa has.

  130. Colin says:


    Can you give me the low down on Central Martinsburg? do they stack up against Alaquippa?

  131. Colin says:


    We may have to peel back the layers on this question. Your question was give you one example of a team without D1 players beating a team with more that 2 D1 players. I think it all comes down to what we consider a d1 recruit because there is an giant difference between FCS(1A) recruits and FBS recruits(1AA). And there is a big difference between the bottom of FCS where there is none to very limited scholarships to the top of it. A few years back in my school district we had a couple of 1AA recruits and we lost to some pretty bad teams. If your idea of a D1 recruit is a kid being recruited by either 1a or 1aa then the question becomes a bit tougher to answer. Me personally I do not consider an FCS recruit a D1 recruit.I gave BG as an example because they had 1 or 2 1AA kids against a team with several 1A kids.

  132. D4 Fan says:

    Last year Bishop Guilfoyle’s QB/S Brandon Chadbourne went to Villanova. RB/DB Sam McCloskey went to Lehigh. Both committed to their respective schools well before playoffs started. OL/DL Andrew Berger went PSAC to Gannon. All outstanding football players.

  133. paul sausmann says:

    @ Colin – you are wrong. BG had a few kids go to colleges and I think two went to D1AA schools as well as two juniors on their team last season that will be going to play ball on Saturdays this season. BG had some players on that team.

  134. Colin says:


    Just throwing it out there. Last year’s 1A title game. Bishop Guilfoyle I believe had only their RB as even a 1AA recruit going to Lehigh. Now I am just going off of what the broadcasters of the game said when what other people have said as well. Now that may have changed since then. It possible some kids may have gotten offers. But this was just the first thing that popped into my head…and as a disclaimer I don’t really keep up to much on where a lot of the kids are going to college so I could be incorrect.

  135. paul sausmann says:

    @ Duke – b/c if you are from a small public school playing against a school that recruits studs from all over, well you don’t really have a great chance to start. There are TONS of examples of how one school w/ one stud went all the way to states on his back. When you have one D1 player and the other school has none, you might be in better shape all day with matchups, that is if your staff is worth a damn and knows how to manage a game.

    give me an example, just one example of a team with no D1 kids beating a team with more than 2 D1 kids.

  136. Mike says:

    Duke I 100 percent agree with you. The game is played on the field, not on paper. Also PCC plays in district 7, so that would also mean an automatic win. Plus if you’re playing at this time of the year you’re a great team. No questions ask. You don’t get here by accident. If you make it this far you have talent.

  137. DUKE says:

    Well it’s Quad A Western Semis in Altoona for 2015.

    PCC vs Cumberland Valley.

    PCC has multiple D-1 recruits, I believe +10 and CV has 0.

    Why does it make people believe that any team with multiple D-1 recruits will automatically win.

    I guess it’s all physiology. What people forget easily is that we are talking about young teenagers who have an uncanny ability to perform at unbelievable lengths above their individual talents. This what makes High School Sports so interesting. The motivation factor is tremendously huge, more than any other timeline in each athletes life.

    So let us look at each Team individually. PCC is very talented without question with the multiple recruits on the squad. But do they play as a Team or as individual Teams within themselves. I believe that the second is more likely.

    In real life all you have to do is remember the Hoosiers movie and you will see what I’m describing.

    CV has demonstrated the type & caliper of Team that they are indeed. Nothing fancy or glorified but just sound fundamental concept of High School Athletics.

    So this make the GAME more of the David versus Goliath type scenario and we all do know who was last standing.

    Good luck to all of the players on each Team for their sacrifices year long and the dedication each has displayed. Now is the time to a belief into success.

  138. pcc64 says:

    Billy in any case, as a Central guy thanks for the accolade.

  139. Colin says:


    Re read my post…..that’s what I said. I didn’t think they are even ONE of.

  140. Eric W says:

    D3 AAAA final..Cumberland Valley 62,CD 61..7 OT’s..CD goes for 2 and gets stuffed at the goal..maybe the best game ever played in a PIAA game..definitely best game ever in!!!

  141. d6football says:

    G-man, Mansion Park has actualy field turf now. Installed 5 years ago i think. It is no longer the 100 yard scotch-brite pad it used to be

  142. Billy Splain says:

    guys, reading comprehension..ONE OF the best I said…not THE best….lol…

  143. pcc64 says:

    Consensus is that PCC 04 defense was better. Not as many D1’s but still better but the season is not over yet.

  144. G-man says:

    In the early years of the championships the games were held at multiple venues, including a few games at Beaver Stadium. Remember their were very few all- weather fields in the late 80’s to mid 90’s. Imagine what a grass surface would have looked like after the 2nd game in 93 if Mansion Park were grass.
    Would love to see the games played at Bucknell in Lewisburg. Unfortunatly, it literally has old astroturf directly on concrete which I believe is what Mansion Park has. I would’nt want to fall on it, let alone be tackled on it.

  145. Colin says:


    One of the best of all time?…I’ve saw PCC play twice. Their Defense is very good. But it doesn’t scream one of the best of all time.

  146. Billy Splain says:

    thanks for the report PCC…Central Catholic probably has one of the best HS Defenses ever assembled in PA history

  147. pcc64 says:

    I was at the PCC game St College game. St college battled on D keeping Central from any of their singniture big plays. Central’s d was too much for them limiting them to 3 points and limiting SC to a handful of 3rd quarter Mishner runs. I have to give SC credit they had a good defensive game plan and they executed very well. However, as hard as they battled they never really really were close to winning the game.

  148. Colin says:


    Was just throwing something out there without really much planning into it but hey we could add those venues as well. As far as the travel if any of these football players play American legion baseball they all know about state wide travel anyways. One year states are in Boyertown the next year it’s in homer city. If you told eastern kids that they would be playing the finals at Heinz field they would be all over that….but I know it’s not gonna happen so I didn’t put a whole lot of thought into it

  149. Leo munley says:

    @ Colin, That would be a 10 hour ordeal for the players who have to travel to either the Eastern or Western side’s of the state. And what about a venue in the Northeastern or Northwestern part of the state. Lackawanna Stadium or AAA yankee stadium would be a great place to hold the finals. For one, the players could go skiing with their school as a ski trip combined with their state championship game. In the Northwest, the players always have water skiing on the Lake Erie.

  150. Leo munley says:

    @ anyone, How was PCC vs State College? I know they won the game but their D played outstanding. I think Central Dauphin could play with PCC in a good game. I don’t think they will win though. S0, PCC is my pick to go to Hershey and win it in the Quad A. They are the only quad A team left for me to root for unless they play Upper Dublin.

  151. Leo munley says:

    Congrats to the District 5 winner – Berlin Brothers. They must be for real. I remember something from last year’s finals when someone told me that most of the Berlin team will be back next year. I said, wow, they were good already – next year they’ll be really good; they are. I still chose Clairton to win but I was not surprised that Berlin won, although I am surprised that Berlin won by so much. Well, can anyone fill me in on Berlin’s Defense? Do they have a secondary that is equal to Hickory’s? I know Berlin is single A but they seem to play like a AA defensive secondary.

  152. d6football says:

    Wow, these scores. Good thing I dont try and make a living predicting HS football. Such a shame that these games werent televised. They all looked interesting.

  153. Eric W says:

    Wow,wasn’t expecting Clairton to get beat down like that..very surprised!

  154. Colin says:

    I know this would never happen but I think a great way to do it would be this. 4 venues rotating on a yearly basis. Hershey, Beaver stadium, Heinz field, Lincoln Financial. Covers just about the whole state and the games would be played at top notch venues. I know the travel is a concern but I think it would be awesome. I know it won’t happen but I man can dream can’t he?

  155. Colin says:

    Eric W

    That right Boyer candy is in Altoona. You may be on to something. 🙂

  156. Billy Splain says:

    Misher is ready to go..they didn’t play him much last week because of wet conditions and didn’t want to risk further injury.
    D6, no games on tv…and there would be SIX games on the field at Beaver Stadium….Honestly don’t know what NCAA would have to say but if I’m coach Franklin, I want all six playing their title games on the field with their friends in the stands watching…
    As for cans of tuna…”oh the humanity of it”

  157. SC says:

    He’s healthy and ready to play

  158. d6football says:

    any games this weekend broadcast online?

  159. Darrin says:

    @ Billy Splain
    Any word from up your way or through your contacts, if that stud RB for State College is healthy?? I know his replacement did a nice job in his absence, but I think this may be much tighter if the feature RB is healthy.

  160. d6football says:

    Billy, why not beaver stadium? Well i wish at least. I dunno how the grass would hold up for 4 games.

  161. me888 says:

    At least we’d have tuna sandwiches for the long ride! 😉

  162. me888 says:

    Colin says:


    If the moves the games To Altoona what would the cheerleaders of the winning semi finals throw into the stand after the game? Can’t throw Hershey kisses in Altoona can you?”

    How about cans of “toona”? 😉

    BTW, Erie to Hershey is 5 hrs, by mapquest.

  163. Darrin says:

    It’s the one thing I really make an effort to travel too. I am about 75% sure I am going this year. I had to use all my vacation and sick time at work for unforeseen family reasons, so as long as I can switch w a coworker I am their. Will know that this week. I understand about people who have the extreme drive and older people who have to make it. But as you know I would recommend it to anybody who has never made the trip, great time!

  164. Billy Splain says:

    I enjoy it too Darrin…You makin the trip this year? The only reason I say it should go back to altoona is distance for teams and fans..not all fans can handle the 4 hr drive from erie area and back 4 hrs…

  165. Darrin says:

    Maybe I am a little different on this topic, but I like Hershey. I guess some people may have far travels, but hell if you have to make the drive, then your team is in the game. Their really is no solution to this one, I have to agree with that. But I do enjoy the trip to Hershey and the weekend of football every year!

  166. Eric W says:

    Or how about Mallo cups..they are from Altoona,I believe?…and taste better than Hershey Kisses anyway!

  167. Eric W says:

    How about deer jerky?

  168. Colin says:


    If the moves the games To Altoona what would the cheerleaders of the winning semi finals throw into the stand after the game? Can’t throw Hershey kisses in Altoona can you?

  169. Eric W says:

    Yeah,not sure how the Hershey thing got started,for the title games..I’m sure $ has something to do with it,perhaps

  170. Billy Splain says:

    there is no real solution to distance once playoffs start. Pitt to Hershey, 3 hrs…if the games were back in center of state, philly to altoona is 3.5 hrs. suck it up, it’s what you play for…and I’m tellin ya now, the players don’t care…they’ll drive to texas to win state title…just the fans and parents that bitch….that said, I still think they should move them back to’s definitely more fair to D10 teams and more central

  171. pcc64 says:

    Now you Know how the the WPIAL and Distric10 teams feel about playing the state championship. Game in Hershey every year.

  172. Eric W says:


    When WWL(D3) plays in the Western Final,they have to travel 150m one way to get to Altoona(2012 & 2014) and same distance when they played in the Western Final @ State College in is what it is,its not easy..not sure what the answer is..when they were in the East wasn’t so bad,they played in Allentown or towards Philly in the Eastern finals and they traveled a third of the distance’s tough now!

  173. Mike S says:

    John, good point there. As it is, that’s a penalty with no real penalty.

  174. John says:

    Great game in Hickory. Farrell stuffing Sharpsville at the 1 in OT with the game on the line, not a fan of either team but I do have to question why the national association changed the pass interference rule in high school. Sharpsville had 3rd and goal from the 2, Farrell was called for PI and Sharpsville got the ball at the 1 but in high school it’s not a automatic first down, Farrell then stopped Sharpsville on 4th and goal at the 1. Does anybody know why the rule was changed? If I’m a coach I tell my players to mug receivers inside the 3, really no penalty for it.

  175. Colin says:


    Can’t speak for the far west teams but all D3 finals are at Hershey Park regardless of who is playing.

  176. SMH on this one. says:

    How does PIAA schedule essentially a home game for both Harrisburg teams and then hold it on Saturday? On the other side, one of the far west teams has to take half a day off of work, players have to miss school, and families have to consider overnight lodging expenses or a late night drive? Somebody using FoxChapel stadium on Saturday?

  177. Darrin says:

    I am going with all WPIAL teams advancing this week. Not familiar w the other games you picked, don’t get a chance in season to follow them. Also you do not hear a lot about them here in the WPIAL. I would be very shocked if all 4 WPIAL teams did not advance this week. Not quite ready for finals picks just yet.

  178. Billy Splain says:

    yeah d6, a dunmore/Sca clash would be titanic.

  179. d6football says:


    PCC over SC
    CD over Cumberland Valley (pick em game)
    TJ over ECP
    MCD over Hanna
    Hickory over Central
    Quips over Karns City

    Title Game Predictions (Why not)

    PCC vs Parkland AAAA
    TJ vs Imhotep AAA
    ALiquippa vs Southern AA
    Clairton vs Camp Hill

    AA in the east side is stumping me the most. So many good teams.

  180. Billy Splain says:

    @mikes…that State/Erie game was a joke and should have never been close. IMO, the refs controlled that game and never allowed either team to have momentum. after watching, I did think SC was the better team and were it not for refs making ridiculous calls SC more than likely would have controlled the game

  181. Colin says:

    Give me your thoughts on TJ/ECP.

  182. Darrin says:

    Going w PCC in that one. I think their Defense with all that size, speed and D1 talent will be to much for State College. Plus they actually spread the ball around on Offense, getting it to their playmakers. It’s the combo of the size and physicality in PCC fronts, coupled w all that speed and athleticism that makes them so tough. But hey that’s why you play the game, but I think PCC will take that game.

  183. Mike S says:

    State College v McDowell must have been a great game.

  184. SC says:

    State College Vs Central Catholic Predictions?

  185. Darrin says:

    This S.F. Vs Aliquippa game is the best Championship I have ever had the privledge to watch!! 44-38 Quip’s, 1:06 to go in 4th.

  186. Darrin says:

    Clairton not only has superior athletes, but those kids are very well coached! They do all the little things very well, such as WR’s blocking downfield and Swarming to the ball on Defense. They also have been playing lights out Special Teams, those Athletes and how good their Offense is, makes them an Excellent Team in all aspects of the game. I was standing by one of the TJ Coaches during the Clairton game and he brought up the point of how well they play in all aspects of the game. They will be a very difficult match up in States!

  187. Yellow boy says:

    Clairton will always be the best team in single A

  188. Colin says:

    Tho Its only 7-0 at the half PCC is clearly the better team. PT is outmanned at almost every position. I suspect that PCC will coast to an easy victory in the end half.

  189. Colin says:

    Ok I’ve watched half of the 1st quarter of the Clairton/Jeanette game. Its 14- 0 and its clear that this is a total mismatch and Jeanette is clearly scared to death and wants be anywhere but in this game today. Time to watch some college football.

  190. Mike S says:

    Congrats to Cathedral Prep on its 20th D10 title in 31 years. Conneaut had a 14-7 lead and got in the red zone twice more in the first half, but could not punch it in either time. Prep pulled away in the second half for its 42-21 win. What could have been if Conneaut hadn’t been outweighed on the OL/DL by such a drastic margin. But the best team moves on.

  191. Darrin says:

    They have put it off for at least one more year. Not sure if it happens, they do share a Zip Code and are literally on top of each other. You are certainly correct, that would be an absolute powerhouse program!

  192. d6football says:

    Speaking of CLairton and theories, have you heard anything more on a possible merger with Clairton and TJ, Darrin? That would be a monster team if it ever happened.

  193. d6football says:

    G-man, that was the talking point two years ago when i still coached. State would never leave the Mid-Penn, too many opportunities would be passed up.

  194. Darrin says:

    I think that sitting in the stands and talking smack about penalties that should or should not be called is ridiculous. It’s the same exact thing as being a “Monday Morning QB.” To say the only way a highly talented team wins is due to a “conspiracy” is a joke! It takes away from the kids who play the game.

  195. Billy Splain says:

    @sclions..pretty darn close…but remember, we didn’t start with rankling 4 classes till mid are preseason…:
    but yeah….7 of my top ten preseason picks in 3A/4A are still ranked and 8 of 10 of my small school teams…still there.

  196. SCLionsFan says:

    How do your current rankings for AAAA compare to your preseason list? Wondered how your crystal ball was working then?

  197. G-man says:

    Some people seem to have lost their minds, Clairton beating the AAA champion! Last year they had a middle linebacker who weighed in at 150-160lbs. By the second half they would be gassed even worse than they were when they played Southern Columbia, if they had’nt been run over before then. Sat with a guy from Notrh Skuylkill for that game and we kept track of how many penalties were not called against Clairton & at the end of the game we compared notes. He saw 7 & I saw 6. We both agreed that two of Claiton’s TD’s should have been called back & one of Southern’s drives should have continued. They engaged in some of the same behavior during that game that they displayed at the end of last years state final. Why do you think you cant switch sides at Hershey anymore? Hershey or PIAA came up with that after the Riverside-Clairton state final. Have been to all of Clairton’s state finals & with the exception of the Dunmore game, if the refs call what they should and things dont go their way, Clairton loses and they become belligerant. If they get the non-calls, they win. Simply put, last years behavior was nothing new.

  198. G-man says:

    I joked that the schools in my area should draw lots & send all the best football players to one school, basketball players to another, baseball players to another, wrestlers ect. so that each school would have a monster team that could compete at the state level against private schools. Four of the six schools made the playoffs.

  199. G-man says:

    Erie Cathedral Prep move up to be good sportsman? Would be shocked to see that happen. There are 6 public schools within 7 miles of my front door. Last year in basketball playoffs, one of them lost to a Catholic school who had 5, count em, 5 starters from out of state! In football, one of them lost to a catholic school with several starters from out of state. If the powers that be at these private schools were good sportsman, they wouldnt recruit out of state players. A school in the east has a starting running back who spends three hours of his day commuting to and from football practice. You might see him in Hershey this year. Sportsmanship & private schools, dont think so. Maybe their religious sensibilities could be appealed to, but I doubt it.

  200. G-man says:

    d6football, that big school league you mentioned seems like a set up to guarantee State College at least 6 wins nearly every year. Central Mtn could be 5A and was crushed by AA Southern Columbia, Williamsport might be turning corner but most of their wins came against teams with losing records, Mifflin County, winless, Dubois, do they understand defense?, and neither Holidaysburg or Altoona have been consistant winners in years. Seems state College would be taking a step down in competition were they to join a league with those schools as their core scedule every year.

  201. G-man says:

    As an outside observer, it may have been mercifull that Dubois and Clearfield didnt play. Judging by the 56-8 pounding Punxsutawny took from Clearfield and the 47-13 defeat Dubois had at the hands of Punxy, Clearfield might have put up a Meadville score up on their side of the scoreboard while holding Dubois to 20 or less.

  202. Billy Splain says:

    Colin, from what I understand they will be meeting several times after the season to discuss how they will handle things. You can definitely look for conference re-alignments there

  203. Colin says:


    Have you heard any talk about how the WPIAL will be structured for next season with the new 6 classes? Wondering how they plan on running their playoffs. What would you like to see happen?

  204. Mike S says:

    Ah, and the new football classifications are out for District 10. Cathedral Prep downsized just enough to hang with the old 3A schools in the new 4A classification. Enrollment of 397 when 398 would make it 5A. Meadville and Erie East move to 5A. Maybe Prep will do the right thing, recognize some sportsmanship, and play up a classification rather to continue to play for a championship against schools like Conneaut at 285 and Franklin 295. Prep has a good enough program and have always been able to fill a schedule.

  205. Mike F says:

    I got to agree with Darrin picks and his reasoning for this weeks WPIAL championship. Should be a good day of football.

  206. Chris says:

    Mike S – After seeing SC defense first hand, I agree they should take McDowell. They are big and fast!

  207. Darrin says:

    Here is my District 7 ( WPIAL ) picks for the Finals at Heinz Sat.
    Class A- Clairton over Jeanette. It was close at the Half last time they played, ultimately Clairtons tempo and 5 D1 Athletes turned it into a blowout!
    Class AA- Aliquippa over S. Fayette. This will be the year the ‘Quips get by the Brumbaugh less Lions. Aliquippa is to strong overall, with to many athletes. I think Aliquippa is to complete and dangerous, and this S. Fayette team is different this year.
    Class AAA- TJ over Central Valley. I am highly impressed with both teams, they are both elite programs. However I think TJ and their brutal physicality and suffocating Defense they play with is the decided edge. However this is by far the hardest game on Championship Sat. to Predict. Could see CV pull it out, but I believe it will be TJ.
    Class AAAA- PCC over Penn-Trafford. PCC has far to much talent on both sides of the ball, not to mention they are getting creative Offensively. Actually using their big time QB, and spreading the field occasionally to get that stockpile of athletes in space. P-T is a very good team all around, two comeback wins the past few weeks that are both instant classics! However I think that PCC is to talented and stout on Defense. As always I’m sure we will see an upset, but I’m pretty confident in these picks. Can’t wait to get to Heinz for a great day of football! Great teams and games in every class, good luck to all of them!!

  208. mikeS says:

    I’ve seen McDowell play. Pretty salty defense and the QB, a jr., is good. But they are not an outstanding 4A team despite having a huge student population. Just had to beat General McLane, a mid-sized AAA school playing up, to make the playoffs. State College should roll.

  209. d6football says:

    SC, I too have a feeling that Altoona will be back earlier rather than later. There were whispers from Franco a few years ago about starting a Big School Central PA conference. The only teams i could think of were: Altoona, Holidaysburg, Mifflin County, Dubois, State College, Williamsport, Central Mountain. This was a few years ago, before the jump to 6 classes.

    Plus i think that the WPIAL sets each teams schedule so even if ALtoona wanted to play State, never gonna happen. They do cross-over games between conferences.

  210. d6football says:

    State College by 14…….. Havent seen McDowell this year, but if SC is firing on all cylinders i think they have a legit shot at the West.

    PCC by 7. Saw both teams on Root Sports this year. I think PCC will grind it out and run clock to keep the ball away from the PT offense.

  211. footballan1 says:

    Who ya’ll got sc or mcdowell? central catholic or penn trafford? score predictions and why?

  212. Billy Splain says:

    yeah, knew that SC…was just trying to make a point to Chris that sometimes, for whatever reasons, rivalries end.

  213. SC says:

    SC doesn’t play Altoona because they joined the WPIAL that used to be a great rivalry, assuming SC as one of the biggest AAAA schools moves up to 6A and Dubois and central mountain being 5A and 4A they will either merge district 6 with district 3, or district 10 or I believe Altoona will come back to district 6 eventually

  214. Phil says:

    It is going to be very interesting as everything shakes out regarding enrollment and where teams fall. Will some elect to move up? We shall see. I think it is going to create not only more equal, but some interesting matchups in the coming years.

    Speaking of interesting games, there are quite a few next weekend with some being regular season rematches. Good luck to all teams still in the playoffs and may the best team win!

  215. Billy Splain says:

    Chris, seems like the only people begging/screaming about Clearfield not playing Dubois are those from Dubois. They don’t. It happens everywhere..from Berwick not playing Southern Columbia to State College not playing Altoona…it just happens.

  216. Chris says:

    Phil, I could say the same about you making Clearfield look silly by defending their actions. If they can schedule out of state teams and a Canadian team, then surely they could figure out how to schedule better competition locally. We obviously have differing opinions, including the D9 championship game you mentioned – it was meaningless based on Punxsy’s record. If Punxsy would have won that game, we would have a D9 champion with a losing record and Clearfield would still go to the playoffs? Maybe now that they are both AAAA it will have to happen.

  217. Chris says:

    Best of luck to Hunter Merritt and Conneaut against Prep, always pull for the public schools!!

  218. Chris says:

    Mike S – I heard the same info on Conneaut and Prep – also heard Bradford will be AAAA. DuBois will remain AAAA which was a surprise. Clearfield and Punxsy will also be AAAA out of D9. Not sure how that will work the D9 schedule now.

  219. Mike F says:

    At the beginning of the playoffs I questioned if Penn Trafford is for real or a product of a soft schedule. They are for real, even if they lose to PCC this week they are a tough team.

  220. Mike S says:

    Looks like Conneaut will mnove from one of the very smallest AAA teams in the State to a smaller AAAA. And some of the larger AA teams in D10 may end up at the the low end of AAAA. Should move Cathedral Prep to 5A unless it lost enrollment. The likely AAA D-10 championship between COnneaut and Cathdral Prep may end up the last time they meet in a playoff game.

  221. Billy Splain says:

    front page mike, story 7

  222. Phil says:

    Don’t know about any links yet, but I according to the word I got today Dubois falls in the quad A parameters for the next cycle beginning next year.

  223. Mike S says:

    Any link to the PIAA enrollment ranges for each class? has that been posted yet?

  224. d6football says:

    Billy, either down to Central Dauphin or shooting over to Selinsgrove. I am leaning towards CD since i can knock some xmas shopping out of the way before the game at the malls.

  225. Billy Splain says:

    UPDATE: The PIAA will post enrollment ranges for each sport tomorrow. On Monday, the PIAA will post classifications for all schools and sports.

  226. Billy Splain says:

    where ya headed this weekend D6?

  227. d6football says:

    Thoughts on this weekend:

    Prep over Oil City
    Conneaut over Franklin
    Central over LV
    Tyrone over Juniata
    WH over PCC
    PR over Penn-Trafford

    Let me see some predictions folks

  228. Mike S says:

    Regardless of who is right/wrong re: Clearfield/Dubois, I love the passion for HS football being displayed on this forum.

    Good luck to everybody’s favorite team, if they’ve gotten into the playoffs.

  229. Phil says:

    Chris, my man, do you realize how silly you are making DuBois look by calling out a triple A team on here? The ADs at both schools do a great job, but their hands are somewhat tied due to league commitments.

    Also, DuBois only plays 2 quad a schools, one of which is a AAA school playing up a class and the other was 0-10 this year. That hardly constitutes playing as many as they can. But the reason they are limited to 2 quad A teams is because of the league they are in. There is not much leeway and, for now, they do not want to drop Punxsy, which is their rivalry game. So that leaves about 2 weeks to play with, maybe 3 as Prep is a crossover game.

    Both Clearfield and DuBois only have so many open dates and apparently Clearfield’s and DuBois’ don’t match. Week 1 DuBois plays a AAAA school and Clearfield goes out of state. Week 5 DuBois plays rival Punxsy and that is when Clfd. plays Brockway. Week 10 DuBois plays Karns City and Clfd. has the D-9 AAA Championship game. All other dates appear to be league games for both teams.

    It is not rocket science to see the schedules don’t jive. The bottom line from what I can see is there is some sort of jealousy issue. I might add that Coach Janocko is a good man and if you had a chance to talk with him, you’d have a change of heart I’m sure.

  230. Kmac says:

    Billy Splain

    I thank you for the updated update on the new classifications.

  231. Chris says:

    DuBois plays all possible AAAA teams they can, and they certainly are not “padding their schedule” by playing the likes of Conneaut, Cathedral Prep, General McLane, etc. As soon as they were able, they dropped Brookville from their schedule. 2 years ago DuBois drove all the way to Morgantown, WV to play a highly ranked AAAA Morgantown High School. In fact, as soon as they found out Hollidaysburg was leaving the WPIAL, DuBois immediately called for a game. So for argument sake, why do they drive through DuBois every year to play Brockway and why do they schedule A and AA out of state and a Canadian team rather than play DuBois. Here is the bottom line, DuBois offers to play them every year, Clearfield refuses. You can attempt to defend them all you want, but these are the cold hard facts. Everyone locally knows why they won’t play, the D9sports reporters know it as well, why can’t you all see it.

  232. Billy Splain says:

    Chris…I agree with Phil…plus, I know for a fact that is why they went to the mountain league. I don’t do rumors i.e. the assistants. For Dubois to be wanting a AAA team to play them and busting on them for not is kind of hypocritical. I also like that they bring in out of PA state champions. Believe me, Jonocko could care less about peer pressure. If he does schedule Dubois, it’ll be because they want to stay local instead of travel.

    Kmac: The schools all just turned in their numbers, the PIAA will let them know next week where they fall…They will then be given until dec 21 I believe to choose to play up if they wish…we’ll get new numbers after Xmas

  233. Kmac says:


    Thank you for the updated information.

  234. Phil says:

    Kmac –
    I believe they may have changed that to mid-December. Also have heard thru the grapevine there may be some teams electing to play up, but depends on where enrollment lines are drawn. Meetings in new year to finalize brackets with final approval scheduled for May as of now.

  235. Kmac says:

    last post

    “released” of course.

  236. Kmac says:


    Speaking of 6 classes in your last post, the 6-class breakdowns were to be relaesed by the PIAA in mid-November; as it is the 17th, any word on this?

  237. Phil says:

    Chris – First of all, I really don’t root for anyone. Just love to watch good high school football. Would, however, like to see ANY D-9 team win a state championship someday.
    Secondly, unless someone has actually spoken to Coach Janocko and he admits to those accusations there is no proof. Clearfield, a AAA team, Happens to play in the Mountain Athletic Conference which consists of mostly AA schools. DuBois a AAAA team, plays in the D-10 Region 5 League which consists of mostly AAA schools.
    The point is they both play in leagues which consist of smaller class schools, so most of both teams schedules are pre-determined. Clearfield did play a 2 time Maryland state champ though. Don’t think that was scheduling a weak team.
    And if you really want to get picky it doesn’t make any sense to me why you want so much for DuBois to add another AAA team to their schedule. Shouldn’t they be looking for quad A teams? Of course all this changes next year with 6 classes. Maybe they will both be AAAA which, in that case, would make sense they play each other because from what I’m hearing some of these leagues will be changing also.

  238. Chris says:

    Billy, we have to disagree with you. Clearfield schedules a weak regular season deliberately, everyone knows it, including Janocko’s assistant coaches who rumor has it are fed up with padding the regular season as well. They stopped playing DuBois when Jason Shalala left. Why in the past 3 years did they seek out of state A, AA games and a Canadian team to play rather than play DuBois?? DuBois attempts to schedule Clearfield every year, and they refuse every year. They choose instead to schedule A and AA teams – they only played 1 weak AAA team this year, and they drive through DuBois to play single A Brockway (hats off to Brockway, I love their program!!). D9 sports hit the nail on the head in last weeks podcast when they verified this – take a listen to it. Pressure has finally gotten to Janocko and we hear they will be playing DuBois again next year, now that he thinks he can beat them. I am not saying who will win of lose the game on any given year, but the fact is that DuBois has wanted Clearfield on the schedule every year. here is a good take on the situation prior to the scrimmage with Clearfield this year:

    What it is – Scrimmage number 2 vs. Clearfield. What it could be, the rivalry that once existed. Yes, there once existed 2 proud teams who played for annual bragging rights, and the right to call the King of the Mountain trophy home for a year. Where did the rivalry go, Beaver fans and the Swami would like to know – for that, ask coach Janocko. The Bison continue to schedule A and AA teams for their regular season games, and they will once again drive through DuBois to play a single A school. Swami says hats off to the single and double A schools willing to step it up, and thumbs down to Clearfield for burying a great tradition! The Beavers and Coach Varischetti would welcome Clearfield to their schedule once again, but for now, the last King of the Mountain trophy will continue to reside in the Beavers showcase! Come and get it Clearfield!

  239. Leo munley says:

    Thanks for the info Darrin. I’ll be checking out all the west teams this weekend. One thing is for sure – the football in the west rocks more than the east.

  240. Billy Splain says:

    you are correct John..and your rankings are very similar to ours…fyi I only had one or two changes all year….very tough when undefeated teams don’t crack top 5

  241. John says:

    Single A rankings.

    1. Bishop Guilfoyle
    2. Clairton
    3. Sharpsville
    4. Berlin
    5. Penns Manor
    6. Farrell
    7. North Catholic
    8. Cambridge Springs
    9. Moshannon Valley
    10. Jeanette

    Been following western pa football for 20 years and this is the strongest I’ve ever seen single a on this side of the state. I actually feel bad for the teams I have 5 through 10, any other year and these teams would have had a shot at Hershey. But the top 4 are potential great teams. It’s telling that undefeated teams Kane and Frazier can’t even crack the top 10. The next 5 weeks are going to be fun.

  242. Billy Splain says:

    Chris, Clearfield doesn’t play Dubois due to reasons I listed below, not because of Franks offense. They play in a league they joined 10 years back…they were the same size as those schools while Dubois was much bigger. Clearfield is one of smaller 3A schools much like Dubois is one of much small 4A Schools…

  243. Chris says:

    Sorry for the typos in my previous posts, my fingers are working faster than my brain tonight! LOL

  244. Chris says:

    Mark – the State College defense is for real, they are the fastest, most organized and hardest hitting DuBois has seen this year – hats off to them! They are better than both Conneaut and Prep defenses. They will definitely keep SC in the games for the remainder of the playoffs! The only question for SC is can their offense compete if they face a defense that is as good as theirs is, which will not doubt happen as the progress. From what I saw, SC definitely has a shot at Hershey FYI – DuBois QB suffered a concussion halfway through the 2nd quarter. He didn’t tell anyone until halftime.

  245. Chris says:

    As far as DuBois/Clearfield game, DuBois has been begging Clearfield to play them every year. Janocko stopped playing DuBois when Varischetti brought the spread offense to town, he is worried sbout his regular season record. Clearfield continues to schedule A and AA schools every year and they finish the regular season with a good record, in fact they only scheduled 1 AAA school this year – then the playoffs start and they have to play AAA schools and get beat. Say what you want about DuBois, but they always schedule tough teams.

  246. Chris says:

    Mike S and D6 – Not making excuses for DuBois but they have been down to their last 3 linebackers and they had to have their receivers play both ways due to injuries at corner. QB had to be pulled at halftime per concussion protocol and the backup threw a pick 6 and another interception inside the 20. State college was going to win, everyone knew it, but considering what DuBois had to play with, they definitely played them tough! DuBois has been dealing with key injuries all year. As for the AAA teams they lost to, all are ranked in the top 5 and will give any AAAA school a game. DuBois is one of the smallest AAA schools in the state.

  247. Mark says:

    Anyone want to talk about State College absolutely dominating Dubois and their passing attack? Miller held to 67 yards in the first half. Serious contenders or weak competition?

  248. Darrin says:

    @ Leo
    Toward your point on Berlin Brothers, I do really enjoy watching their RB- Focthman I believe is his name. He is a very nice back, good speed, great vision and tough! They hung for a while last yr w Clairton. They also had a very good DL, I enjoy seeing teams outside the WPIAL w talented kids because you don’t hear bout them in Dist. 7. Unless they are a big time D1 Prospect like the Safety from Hickory, also really enjoy watching him play. So it should be fun when States come around seeing different teams and styles!

  249. Darrin says:

    Freeport is a solid program, the kids are tough and hard nosed. They are always well Coached, they had a great gameplan. I Coached in the Allegheny Conf. that Freeport is in for 7yrs and it is a physical Conf. Wash made mistakes and looked past Freeport. TJ was w out their QB and a few other key players in the first 2weeks, have been brutalizing teams since there return. TJ is so physical on Offense and Defense that it’s hard to deal with. My friend Coaches Armstrong their rnd 1 opponent, after I saw the physicality and fundamental style in which they handled them, I knew they were “Classic TJ”. To big, strong, physical and sound. TJ in AAA, PCC IN AAAA, Clairton in A and Aliquippa in AA. I think W. Hills or Penn-Trafford could upset PCC but don’t think it will happen. Clairton has to much talent and speed, be surprised to see anybody give them a game before PIAA Finals. However they have had injury issues and low roster #’s so you never know. I believe this will be Aliquippa’s year in AA, finally beat S. Fayette w no Brumbaugh. I picked SF the previous 2yrs but not this yr. I am Very impressed w TJ, can’t see anybody being able to deal w that for 4Qtrs. But hey that’s why you play the game, I thought Wash High could win it all, surely never saw em losing to Freeport! Should be fun to see what shakes out Leo!

  250. Leo munley says:

    @ Darrin, I was shocked to say the least in Washington’s loss. I picked them to win the WPIAL AA Championship, if that means anything or not. Other than Freeport reflecting the great job their coaching staff done for them, are they that good of a team? They went 10 and one. And why do you say that the TJ call was pretty easy? They beat a good team- in fact, the one I predicted again to win the WPIAL AAA Championship. Thomas Jefferson, however, is good too. Was West’s close game with Woodland Hills a fluke? Anyways, I’m 0 and 2 so far. My other predictions are: Single A – I have Clairton winning District 7 but having trouble with Berlin Brothers. Quad A- I have PCC taking it but I am starting to shake my head on that one.

  251. Darrin says:

    Ya the TJ call was pretty easy, they have been crushing people since they got healthy after losing first 2 games! Thank You. But the absolute shocker was Wash High losing to Freeport, what a great Coaching job by the Freeport staff! Freeport not only beat them, those kids dominated a solid Wash High team. I did not see that coming, don’t think anybody did! But AA will be S. Fayette vs Aliquippa part III!

  252. d6football says:

    Good call on TJ Darrin.

  253. Billy Splain says:

    TJ win wouldn’t surprise…I had them highly ranked until those first 2 losses due to injuries. West A isn’t looking as sharp as they did mid season. Nehanock..hmm….I agree, that game is a toss up…btw…remember that “help” you were gonna give me? lol

  254. Darrin says:

    Great to hear from you my friend. Yes my season is over, I was at a new School this year that is in the process of building a program. Actually the 1st time in 8 seasons I did not Coach in the post season, but we put down a solid foundation moving forward! Now to the upsets, I only have 2games that may surprise people. TJ over W. Allegheny & Neshanock over Jeanette. I know those are not shockers but I think this weekend plays out the way it looks. TJ has been so tough since getting healthy after those two losses to start the season. Amazing what 2kids returning can do, also TJ is so ABSURDLY physical in all aspects that I think W. Allegheny will have probs w them. Jeanette stud RB Hall is banged up so I am taking Neshanock. However this game is a coin flip, but those are the only 2 I see surprising anybody. Let the games begin!

  255. colin says:


    Give me you upset special of the week. There’s always an upset or 2 out there

  256. Billy Splain says:

    @d6…this is what I understand happened: In 2003 the Clearfield area was experiencing a big population decline. The Bison were on the verge of and I believe were a AA school in 2005. Dubois on the other hand, was and still is a 4A school. Back when that decision for Clearfield to leave D9 was made they just felt like the 2 programs were heading in different directions. Things have since stabilized but the Bison remain in the Mountain league. They WERE an annual rivalry, with Dubois holding a 66-28-5 advantage

  257. d6football says:

    I have always wondered why Dubois and Clearfield never play? With the great disparity of big school in that region, i figured they would be an annual rivalry game.

  258. Mike S says:

    Dubois can sure fling the ball around – I think they run the Tony Franklin system (the old Kentucky air raid offense former Browns QB Tim Couch came out of), but geez, the defense is deplorable this season. It’s not like they don’t have players, they do. They lost to a lot of AAA schools this season — gave up 109 pts to Meadville, so I agree SC should run all over them.

  259. d6football says:

    State College 41, Dubois 14. Have seen both teams live and it shouldn’t even be a close game at halftime.

  260. Darrin says:

    Hey guys great to be back on the site, after a long season and crazy work schedule!! I am going to give a sleeper pick of sort, Washington HS in AA. They fly under the radar due to S. Fayette and Aliquippa getting all headlines. With Kaezon Pugh having injury issues and S.F. not as potent as usual, Wash High could very easily grab the Crown. Explosive O, highly stingy D and a great Coach. They can play whatever game they want, power and speed, and also have an excellent roster top to bottom! AA in WPIAL is going to be AWESOME in the coming weeks!

  261. Mike S says:

    Regarding the playoffs, this year D10 opened the AAA playoffs to ALL 8 teams (instead of 4) to provide an extra round of games ($$$$). Schools could opt out, but if so, there is no re-seeding.

    Erie Strong Vincent opted out, so Oil City, a second seed in region 5 gets a bye while undefeated Conneaut, the 1 seed has to play winless Erie East. Extra games like that, aren’t needed as playoff game.

    Of course, this will likely change next year with the reclassifications.

  262. paul sausmann says:

    anyone have the order of the WPIAL championship games this season; ie quad A first, triple A game second, etc… tx. paul

  263. Billy Splain says:

    footballanl: SC…if Dubois had more than tissue paper for a defense I’d be tempted to pick them…but, sorry Beavers, you gotta do defense to win

  264. footballan1 says:

    who you got sc or dubois and why

  265. paul sausmann says:

    Sounds good D6, I will send you an updated list after the season ends/Hershey and I get all the games copied/sent on my part and then start copying the games that come in. Already have about 35 games sent to me/to be copied already on the season.

    or just keep sending me a reminder every once in a while to see the updated list and I will email it to you.

  266. d6football says:

    Paul, I have another full dvr of games, just have ot figure out how to get them onto my PC and burnt. We will catch up after the season and exchange again?

  267. Mike F says:

    At the USC/PGH CC game and it is 49-0 at halftime. If people think there is took many weeks in football, week 10 is a week that can easily be cut out. A 5-4 team has no business “earning” a playoff spot. This is not a WPIAL thing either. All throughout the state too many mediocre teams get rewards without truly earning it.

  268. colin says:

    Mike S

    Thanks for the back story. I think you are right about more consolidations. In Phila they closed a few high schools and the archdiocese did as well. I’m sure there will be more coming. This is one of the reasons I opposed the 6 class proposal. I thought 5 was the right #. D7 has had a few consolidations recently as well with Armstrong the most recent. Going to 6 classes really spreads it thin with schools disappearing. It will be interesting to see how many more mergers we see. It’s seems like something that smaller SDs may need to look at.

  269. Mike S says:

    Yes, Conneaut Area Senior High formed from the 3 HS’s in the Connneaut School District. They were Linesville (which became the single High School), Conneaut Lake (had so few players they had to co-op with Linesville for the last years of the school), and Conneaut Valley (towns of Conneautville and Springboro). I’m a Valley grad. The other 2 HS’s became middle schools.

    It’s an area that has been de-populating for several decades. Heck, even Meadville, the county seat in Crawford County has gone from almost 18,000 pop. down to only 13,000 over the last 35 years.

    But I guess that’s the trend in a lot of places in PA. There may be other consolidations in the coming years in that area, where the schools in the Penncrest School District (Cambridge Springs, Saegertown, and Maplewood) may consolidate.

  270. paul sausmann says:

    @ colin – I did hear others mention Beaver Falls too. That game, if it happens, would be the the WPIAL semifinals in AA, and it would be a good one but tough one for whoever wins, Aliquippa most likely stands in the way. AA going to be fun to watch too.

  271. colin says:

    Yeah I noticed that too. The team that comes out of that upper 4A bracket May be a bit beaten up. 3A I’ll still go with WA even tho they lost to CV. 1A it’s hard to see anything else except for a clairton/cardinal weurl final….2A could be interesting. Alaquippa looks strong. Keazon Pugh is a beast. But don’t be surprised to see Beaver Falls beat South Fayette. When they played the quips last week the game was close until the wheels fell off in the 4th quarter. A potential beaver falls/south Fayette semi could be a classic.

  272. paul sausmann says:

    @ d6 – Conneaut was formed from Linesville, Conneaut Valley and Conneaut Lake if I remember correctly. I have family at both Greenville and Wilmington and think remembering those three smaller schools mentioned.

  273. paul sausmann says:

    @ Colin – I saw that and won’t get to see it since I only make two WPIAL trips a season and this second one is for the finals at Heinz.

    that sucks that PCC, Woody, and NA are all on the same side of the bracket this year. So I guess I go with a Woody v PR WPIAL final but can never count out PCC or NA. Dang that left side of AAAA is a gauntlet.

    Hoping for WA v Central Valley AAA finals and of course as most know I would love to see another Aliquippa v SF final. fingers crossed.

  274. d6football says:

    Mike S, what schools formed to create Conneaut? I was able to catch their game vs Meadville on PCN and they looked fairly good.

  275. colin says:


    I think you mad get your wish of. PCC/Woody game but it will have to be in the semi final as Woody is the 1 seed and PCC is the 4 seed.

  276. Mike S says:

    A bit of a switch of topics. I thought I’d comment on this site’s rankings in AAA that now have 9-0 Conneaut Area Senior High (formed 4 years ago from consolidation of 3 tiny single A schools) ranked #1 in W.PA. As a grad of one of those tiny schools, I’m mighty proud of the D10 championship won last year when CASH beat Cathedral Prep 14-7, but I’m tempering expectations for the likely eventual rematch in the D10 championship game this year. The stars of the CASH team, Hunter Merritt and Henry Litwin, both seniors, may be better players than anyone Prep has, but it’s hard to win against great competition with offensive and defensive lines that average only 200 pounds and a total roster of about 40 players. Certainly Cathedral Prep has to be considered the heavy favorite. The CASH kids rank 10 out of 10 on toughness and effort, so we’ll see how far they go. Hoping we get to see Merritt and Litwin playing college ball somewhere next fall.

  277. Mike F says:


    I feel Penn Trafford is a mystery team. They have a great record, they look well coached but they played a fairly easy schedule making me ask myself if they are for real. Obviously the north AAAA schools are tested, even the south teams have been tested. Other than McKeesport who has PT played for us to gauge how good they are. It should be fun finding out the next few weeks.

  278. paul sausmann says:

    @ Mike F – maybe its about time they do.

  279. paul sausmann says:

    WPIAL championships confirmed for Nov 28. Anyone have the schedule/lineup for which classes go on first??? tx.

    I really hope its a Woody v PCC matchup again but have a feeling Penn Trafford has something to say about that.

    Would love to see the Quips go at SF again as well.

  280. colin says:


    I likely missed it but are the d7 pairings available yet?

  281. Mike F says:

    Paul, I am not trying to speak for Stanton, but his point is clear. Prep has had players from NJ since the 20’s, so this is not a recent phenomenon with them. The PIAA knew this and still invited the league in which prep plays in to join the PIAA. So your issue should be with the PIAA inviting them, instead of the institution that hasn’t changed their ways since in 90+ years.

  282. paul sausmann says:

    @ Stanton – sorry bud but I just don’t have the time for your “Prep” saga and quite honestly your deflections will not cause me to accept Prep as a true member of the PIAA. I said what was on my mind – MODERN DAY PIAA was NOT around in 1920’s. you keep bringing that nonsense up, NO I DON”T THINK THEY RECRUITED ANYONE FROM THE 1920 ERA TO WIN TODAY OR WHATEVER THE HELL YOU ARE TRYING TO REACH FOR HERE.

  283. Stanton says:

    This is getting repetitive but allow me to reiterate: Students from New Jersey have been playing football for the Prep since the Catholic League formed in 1920. Do you mean to tell me these players were recruited to win state championships 90 years later?!? It’s a part of the school, we have students from New Jersey, yes. The PIAA was well aware of that when it decided with the Catholic League, NOT St. Joe’s Prep, to allow us to compete for the state championship. Do you want the Prep to ban our students from New Jersey from participating in athletics? I think you may have an uphill battle there.

    I understand you blame the Prep for the change in the PIAA structure, but maybe you should blame the system itself. This, after all, was their decision.

  284. paul sausmann says:

    @ Mike – I wouldn’t like it if I were an Ohio resident that kids from another state come in to compete for something that is Ohio when they are not. Call me skewed or old school or whatever – its just not right to have to bring in kids from somewhere that is not included in our title games in order to win that title game. it hurts our in-state kids, the ones that should be playing for the title. perfect example – last season St Joes Prep out of philly had NINE starters with NJ addresses, 11 all together on the team. That team beat Parkland and two other public schools that have all PA kids on it. Prep, with Jersey kids, goes on to Hershey for a PIAA title. The “P” in PIAA stands for PENNSYLVANIA. I’m against bringing in kids b/c you can’t win with the kids you have.

  285. Billy Splain says:

    @d6, I will be heading to Toona for BG/Somerset friday. Covered SC/CV last weekend. hopefully we’ll meet up sometime.

  286. d6football says:

    I am just over the mountain from you. You coming down for the SC vs MC game friday? It will be ugly, but i plan on attending.

  287. colin says:


    Definitely don’t agree but it is what it is.

  288. Billy Splain says:

    @colin….coach wade served first game suspension..and they’re on misconduct pre/during/post game and their season ends

  289. Mike F says:

    Paul S,

    What is your opinion of Midland sending their kids to East LiverpolOhio every year and completing for the Ohio title? If it was the other way around and E Liverpol Ohio sent their kids to Midland would you still have the same view? Not trying to be condescending, just want your view point.

  290. colin says:


    Not trying to bring up old wounds here but what was the final punishment for clairton after last years 1a final? I didn’t really see anything after all the dust settled. Obviously they didn’t get a playoff ban.

  291. paul sausmann says:

    @stanton – I could care less how many Jersey kids attend The Prep, what bothers me is that those same jersey kids, you know the ones that don’t live in PA, can not only participate in PA sports and in the PIAA but can be a deciding factor in PIAA sports and THEY ARE NOT PA RESIDENTS!!!!

    You ask what would we like you to do now??? How about if you all want to play in the PIAA you can start by using PA kids. Then how about abiding by the same rules as the public schools that do compete in the PIAA.

    Pretty simple if you ask me.

  292. Billy Splain says:

    @d6…State had some key injuries early in the year that definitely played into some of the losses they had, especially Springford and McDevitt…mistakes cost them vs. CD…I still consider them a Hershey contender

  293. d6football says:

    State College with the impressive game.I can see them making it through the playoffs to face the D7 winner, assuming the brackets are still the same in AAAA.

  294. John says:

    Shane, this years Sharpsville team is much better then last years in my option. The 2014 came into the playoffs with 3 loses and a couple other close games, This years team has pounded everyone including a very good Farrell team 26-8. They have maybe the biggest best oline in all of d10 any class. It would be a battle but I think they will beat the winner of wpial champ or Berlin.

  295. colin says:


    I actually live in Upper Perk which is right next to Quakertown. I’ve seen Quakertown a few Times. I never really thought they were a contender but still are having a great season

  296. Leo munley says:

    @Colin Quakes seeded around 6-8. The Dist 1 field looks pretty equal this year. Strong too. It would be an awesome game if we had say an all star game played between the Quad A players from Districts 1 vs 7.

  297. Leo munley says:

    @Colin, good luck to Qtown this year. I’m hoping they’ll end up at

  298. colin says:


    It’s possible we met…yes I live in qtown area

  299. Billy Splain says:

    Shane, where abouts in D9 are you?

  300. Leo munley says:

    Here’s my quick picks for the Quad A: Eastern Finals:
    Districts 2, 4, 11 champ – Coach Curry’s 10 year plan before going back to Berwick- finally takes action, the Wyoming Valley West vs District 12- who else but New Jersey Joe Prep-with the winner vs District 1’s “A long wait” Downingtown West. The Western Finals are very difficult to pick so here goes: Districts’ 6, 9; 8, 10 finalist-The run away from the District 3 field – State College loses to McDowell. However, Mcdowell has to play the strongest field- District 7’s – I said it – Penn Trafford. We’ll see. District 3 will be represented by Wilson West Lawn. Honorable mentions are: Upper Dublin, Downingtown East, Parkland, Liberty, Spring Ford, Quakertown, Exeter Twp., Mt. Lebanon, PCC, Woodland Hills, North Allegheny,Brashear, Holidayburg, Central Dauphin, and Central Bucks East,
    Longshots: Plymouth Whitemarsh, Upper Darby; Simon Gratz, Dallastown, Dubois, and Plum.

  301. Shane Lux says:

    Auto correct

  302. Shane Lux says:

    I’m a D9 guy. Last year Berlin lost 52-24 to Clairton, trailed just 36-24 after 3. Berlin outplayed them after falling behind 22-0. John, last year Sharpsville got pretty manhandled by the Bears. I know Popatak was out for Devils but still. Berlin’s entire team is back, the fact that Braden Fouctman has zero D1 offerscis a joke. Like I’ve said before Berlin last year beat Portage twice including 38-14 in West Pac title game. Bishop Guilfoyle beat Portage 28-14 in D6 A Title game. Everybody said it was an upset when BG beat Clairton. I say, why didn’t Berlin beat Clairton? With the game at a D5 site this year probably Somerset, I think that helps out Berlin. D9 or D10 champ probe not going to hang with that winner

  303. Leo munley says:

    Have we met Colin? For some reason I think I might of met you. Your from the Quaker town area right? But anyways, I like the high school sports talk on this forum. The people are serious high school fans.

  304. Leo munley says:

    Hi Colin, some of the teams I picked were chosen fast and dum. Just look at ACC, they got blown out today by Liberty- meaning that there is no way they can enter as one of the teams from district 11.
    The most I ever predicted on the power ball, every week for about 5 years is 3 numbers. I’m bad at that. However, I chose every team in the PIAA finals last year; every winner except Dunmore because I grew up in that area and now live in the West Chester Area for the past 15 years. They blew the game by getting stopped on a drive that ended up near the 10 yard line. I have been following the PIAA playoffs ever since it started- I’m not tooting my horn either-ha ha

  305. colin says:


    Very interesting picks. If they all come true I would like you to pick the power ball next…seriously tho. I hope your are right because I’d like to see some New teams make a push.

  306. Leo munley says:

    My picks – Eastern final A : Delaware County Christian (1) vs Bishop Guilfoyle (6).
    Western final A: Clairton (7) vs Sharpsville (10)
    Honorable mention: Berlin brothers, Old Forge, Cardinal North Catholic, and Camp Hill.
    Eastern final AA: Southern Columbia (4) vs Dunnore (2) Western final AA: Washington (7) vs Hickory (10)
    Honorable mention: Lake Lehman, Wyomissing, Berks Catholic, South Fayette, Bedford, and Sharon.
    Eastern final AAA: Imhotep Charter (12) vs Allentown Central Catholic.
    Western final AAA: Susquehanna Twp. (3) vs Cathedral Prep(10).
    Honorable mention: Scranton Prep, Archbishop Wood, Bethelem Catholic, Academy Park, Saucon Valley, Bishop Mcdevitt, West Allegheny, Central Valley, Conneaut, Mars. And Selinsgrove.

    I’ll be back tomorrow for AAAA.
    Note: Allentown Central is just as good as Beth. Catholic, however, if they lose tomorrow at Liberty they might not even make the playoffs. In that case, then, the eastern final will be Imhotep vs Scranton Prep!!

  307. g says:

    where is Sharon? beat Hickory. Quips and Sf still class of aa west. think Washington beats anyone in d10

  308. John says:

    A-Sharpsville-just a monster line for a single a school.
    AA-Aliquippa-this is the year they get South Fayette
    AAA- West Allegheny, murderous schedule gets them ready.
    AAAA- State College in a upset.

  309. Mike F says:


    You are correct about last year, but Clairton is the toughest out of all teams in PA, come playoff time

  310. colin says:


    They said that last year about Clairton. Just saying

  311. Mike F says:

    No way Clairton is not single A state champs. I could see Hickory/ SF or Aliquppia being AA western rep

    In AAA I say either ECP or West Allegheny. AAAA is the tough one to predict. There are 4 WPIAL schools that have a shot, along with the district 3 winner.

  312. Billy Splain says:

    interesting pics shane…berlin eh? where ya from? What district

  313. Shane Lux says:

    My District Champs predictions


    AAAA-Penn Trafford
    AAA-West Allegheny
    AA-South Fayette

    AA-Central Martinsburg
    A-Bishpp Guilfoyle


    AA-Karns City

    AAA-Cathedral Prep

    D5,8 AA Sub Regional

    D5,6,8,9 AAA Sub Regional

    D6,9,10 AAAA Sub Regional
    AAAA-State College

    My teams to represent Western PA in State Finals

    AAA-Bishop McDevitt
    AAAA-Central Dauphin

  314. colin says:


    It unlikely we have met. I live down here in D1 area near Quakertown. However if I remind you of someone Hopefully he’s a good looking fella lol

  315. me888 says:


    I think Prep is still the favorite in D-10 AAA, but not nearly by as much as last year (and obviously they still lost last year). The severe weather at Edinboro (icy/snowy/windy/frozen turf) last year was a game changer. Prep had many more chances to score than CASH, and just didn’t get it done. CASH had many fewer chances to score, but to their credit, just had the best drive of the game when it mattered most scoring with only a few seconds left. One of those “That’s why they play the games!” games. Merritt and Litwin are a dynamic duo for CASH, and Prep is just getting their So. QB back from a 1st (Fla.) game broken collar bone. Their backup has played well, so they have decisions to make. Prep doesn’t have the great RB or WR that they usually have, but they’re still talented. They are big and tough on the line though, and that means a great deal. I’d give Prep a slight edge this year, but thought CASH would have lost 8 of 10 to Prep last year. I saw Prep about 4 times last year, and CASH only twice. I wasn’t rooting for either team in their meeting last year going into the game, but actually found myself hoping CASH scored on that final drive for the win. It was very exciting. I was actually right on the goal line for the game winner, and could see it unfolding (seemed like slow motion). The QB just had to get it there to the back corner of the endzone, and he did…great stuff!

    I may be mistaken about who you are, but from your postings…I’d say we may have met before. Then again, like the post above states, I could (and have been known to) be wrong…occasionally! lol

  316. colin says:


    Do you think conneaut can take down EPC again this year?

    I’m a little vague on your last question tho. Are you referring me posting on this site?. I post a lot on the eastern site because it has a little more traffic.

  317. me888 says:

    Been living in the D-10 area for 40 years. The only player I can ever remember playing for Cathedral Prep that wasn’t from PA was Booker Coleman around 1986. He was a great basketball player who then played at Wisconsin. I feel pretty confident that there are no NY or OH athletes (or even non-athlete students for that matter) in the school, probably in the past 20 years or more. Many of you who think otherwise are mistaken. The topic of Prep is always a big hot button issue, and they’re accused of many things up here, but that (out of state kids) is never brought up around here, because it’s fiction. FTR, not a Prep lover or hater either.

    Hey Colin…where you been? It took you long enough to get here! 😉

  318. Mike S says:

    Regarding this public/private school debate, I’ll add that there’s a reason why Cathedral Prep up in Erie has played in 27 of the 30 District 10 championships games and won 19. CP is big on sports, I’ve been told has players from across state lines. They’re in AAA with 80-90 players on the team playing schools in NW PA who can only manage 40-50 players on the 9-12th grade roster. It’s an admirable program they’ve put together at Cathedral Prep, but it’s hardly fair.

    What I like about the move to 6 classifications is that it moves them up from 3A out of 4 to 5A out of 6, and evens the playing field against them by making them face teams that should be better competition.

  319. colin says:

    .your exactly right. In D12 between both the Catholic and Public leagues your talking about maybe a half dozen teams that can compete on a state playoff level. But most districts are likely that way as well.

  320. colin says:


    The prep school thing has always been a hot button issue. If you post about it people are gonna post back. Just the way it is….I found it funny tho that you used one of the most notorious recruiting public schools in the sports of wrestling to make a comparison.I’m not sure if they had 9 starters from NJ but I’ll take your word for it. But that says a lot about PA football that a NJ AAU team can barely get past Parkland and Pine Richland.Maybe someone else on here can verify how many NJ are on the prep team. But I see your point. Prep gets NJ kids because of location. If PCC was 10 mins from the Ohio boarder you can rest assured there would be Ohio kids on the team. When it comes down to it a recruiting machine is a recruiting machine. Weather your pulling kids from various recruiting fertile schools districts from the Pitt are or players from different states. To me when it boils down PCC ans Prep are cut from the same cloth….but there is one thing we both can agree on. This topic gives me a headache. I try to avoid it but sometimes get pulled in. I would much rather discuss the games and the great playoff season ahead. No hard feelings my friend.

  321. Stanton says:

    Do you realize kids from South Jersey have been attending the Prep since the 1920’s? What would you like us to do about this now?

    The passionate detest for a school you know little to nothing about over football is astounding.

  322. Leo munley says:

    I really enjoyed reading all the comments. Because of the time situation, I won’t be able to post much even though I want to. However, I’ll mention a few things about the Philadelphia schools. Now, I agree with everyone that recruiting not only gives a team an advantage over the more common teams but it is also just plain stupid at the high school level; not just unfair to other teams but pollutes the game for our future fans. As for the Philly schools in district 12 (the public), most of them near or over 75 % can’t compete with district 1 anyways. They definitely, in all classes with exception of Imhotep would most likely get crushed by about 75% of the Wpial teams. As for the Catholic league which is part of district 12- there are only about half of 12 teams that could compete with the west. Now having said that, North Penn which is in district one and a powerhouse before the likes of SJP, Or Lassale, etc. came on the scene. Anyways, can’t make my point clear sorry, but north Penn has an enrollment of over 1800 boys in n there school.theycould make 2 other high schools but don’t because of the moneymaking with pharmacy products. Moreover, at least 80 kids never get to tryout for high school football.

  323. paul sausmann says:

    Also @ Colin – I never said it was okay for PCC to be that way. also those nine kids that started for Prep could not be replaced by PA kids, get real man. Three of those players had at least three stars; two had four stars and guess what, PA didn’t have those kids to replace that many studs in that area. so no, I don’t buy it one bit.

    SJP is NOT a state champ without NJ kids, that’s the sad part since the rest of the teams they play in the playoffs are PA teams!!!

  324. paul sausmann says:

    @ Colin – I don’t think its okay for PCC to waltz into Hershey with kids from all over Pittsburgh to play a community school like Parkland, North Penn, or Central Dauphin. I don’t think its okay at all. In fact, I am all for PCC to be put into their own league for playoffs and titles. Now, for the simple fact all those kids are PA kids to begin with and still live in PA, that’s why its nowhere near as bad.

    Imagine this; Easton HS, a badazz public school from my area always a contender for districts and regionals but if they brought in 11 kids from NJ just for football, they would win just about every season. Now remember, these are just any 11 kids from Jersey, NINE of them are starters on a AAAA title contending team. That means that team will keep winning and winning and winning with kids from “other places” that other schools cannot bring on their team.

    Easy as that, I have nothing more for you. If you don’t get it this time, just ignore the rest of my posts. Again, I don’t have the time for this every season. Somewhere, sometime, someone will also figure it out.

  325. Phil says:

    Mike F.,
    I know Aliquippa plays up, but don’t understand why Clairton doesn’t. I believe Jeannette played up for awhile too. Also McDevitt played up for years (maybe even 2 classes up – not sure about that). Currently others that I know about is General McLane and Imhotep. I don’t think you are punishing success by moving up, I believe you are punishing the players if you don’t. It will be better competition for the team (and players) moving up and the teams they left behind in the lower class.

  326. colin says:


    Great post. But still none of this explains why in you previous posts you thought it’s fine for PCC to have kids from over 10 different school districts but not ok for prep or another school to have out of state kids. Recruiting is recruiting. Doenst matter where the kid lives. But if prep didn’t have these 9 kids fr on NJ they likely would have had players just as good from PA because they can get to pick and choose like everyone says….but in the end it still comes to This is the way it’s gonna be and there will be No private division in the PIAA. No matter how wrong you or I think it is it’s not gonna change so we have to deal with it. As far as open enrollment I couldn’t care less if a kid lives in state college and goes to school in Altoona. But it’s up to that certain school district to open their borders. The PIAA has no power to open anyones school boarders. I know the score of the game my friend. I know prep schools have a big advantage. In The end this is what The PIAA wants. I remember out going PIAA boss Brad Cashman saying after the Philly schools joined “now we can finally have a true state champion”. Those words should speaks volumes about where the PIAA stands. Not gonna change my friend. No matter how much you or I want it too……keep posting. I like your passion for high school sports my friend.

  327. Mike F says:


    1st Quippa already plays up to AA. Second yes they have D1talent year in year out at skill positions not the trenches. If the schools want to play up they should be allowed to, but not forced to. Why are we punishing success? I am sure the kids say bring it, that is a great attitude and I encourage it. With that said there is a reason in boxing the corner can through in the towel. True warriors won’t quit. I really believe those schools could beat the AAA or even AAAA CHAMPS, but not do a season grind of season.

  328. paul sausmann says:

    guys – I don’t have the time to lay this out every season. Its an old issue that seems to be brought up every season by a new poster.

    Its NOT right for ANY school in PENNSYLVANIA to compete with kids from another state. I don’t care if they are public school like Easton right on the Delaware River with New Jersey or Erie Prep on the Ohio/NY border or SJP on the New Jersey border.

    What I can’t figure out is the fact that many grown, educated men actually don’t see where the problem is. We are not an AAU state for PIAA football. If that’s the case, ALLOW ALL schools to do it. That means open-enrollment statewide. Then our state can suck the big one just like Florida and a few other “open enrollment” states.

    Again, EXACTLY why we here in the Commonwealth of PENNSYLVANIA (Not PA, NY, and NJ) need a separate league for the private schools. Let them recruit across the entire freakin’ country if they want; become an IMG, STA, or Bishop Gorman – just get the hell out of PIAA and the public school system that plays for the PIAA at Hersey.

    Again, for the life of me I cannot grasp the fact that some of you are so blind to the disadvantage gap and actually come up with excuses on how to make things sound like there is an equality that exists for the district-locked public school and a school like Prep who can OPENLY pull kids from other states to play football.

    Look, if SJP didn’t have NINE starters from NJ last season and a blind ref, they would NOT have beat the last three public schools they played and those public schools would RIGHTFULLY being playing at Hershey with kids FROM THE STATE THAT IS HOLDING THE TITLE GAMES!!! Holy crap I cannot believe how naive or ignorant some of you can be to this issue. Apparently some of you are “scared” that your beloved Prep school will be exposed for what they really are if they had to play by the same rules as other schools in the state. Again, all the more reason to have your own league and then do whatever it is you all want to do and accomplish.

  329. Phil says:

    Mike F, don’t look at it through conjecture. Anyone can get hurt at any time against anybody. I believe the kids from Aliquippa and Clairton would tell you to bring it on. What are they really getting out of beating teams 60, 70, 80 to nothing and only playing a half of a game? There are D-1 college players on those teams practically every year. Believe me they do not want to play half a game! There are not too many A or AA teams that have that kind of talent so I believe they could handle themselves at AA or AAA under the 6 class system and most likely do well! Your example is of AAA teams under the 4 class system not the new 6 class system. Then again, if they can’t handle it, then they drop back after the next cycle.

  330. Mike F says:

    Phil, the success factor as with most things will have both positives and negatives. My example is Clairton and Quippa. Both are small schools who are dominating. Using the current 4 class system, they both could beat the best AAA teams. Yet if you forced either one to play a full AAA schedule, not only do they not make playoffs, too many players will get injured do to lack of depth, especially along the lines. It is not like those districts are South Fayette, a large almost AAA size school that is still growing in size, they can handle the depth issues.

  331. Phil says:

    Guys, let me throw something out at you. Do you think the success factor would level the playing field? It wouldn’t happen overnight but every 2 year cycle if any school, public or private, dominates a certain class they should move up and if they keep succeeding they move up again the next 2 year cycle. After moving up, if they don’t succeed leave them alone or move them back down. Once you are 6A though, that’s it. Don’t think someone will really dominate there, but they could I guess. Not sure we really need public and private classes if PIAA incorporates the success factor.

  332. colin says:


    If the preps could really hand pick their players they would be even better then they are now but I see your point. A prep division is never going to happen. It took a lawsuit to get the preps and pubs under one umbrella and it will take another to seperate them. I don’t think the PIAA would really care if there was open boarders. However they Have absolutely no power to make that happen. That come down to the individual school board of a district that would be interested in such a thing. Some districts allow students from other districts as long as there is a tuition paid. But my original argument was how is PCC who has kids from a boat load of school districts Any different from st Joe’s who has kids from NJ. To me I see no difference.

  333. Chris says:

    Nothing against Cathedral Prep, but I have always said that if the best players from district 9 and 10 could be hand picked, they would be all but unstoppable (any districts for that matter). Public schools are subject to their individual school district boundaries, and therefore subject to the athletes within those boundaries. Anyone can go to a prep school, especially if the program makes it worth their while. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Prep program, but how can anyone call it fair for any prep/private school to compete against the publics? A friend of mine lives in State College and his son is a starting lineman for Bishop Guilfoyle in Altoona. What if the best lineman from Altoona could play for State College High School? What would it hurt for the state to create a 2 division prep/private league (large/small)? The only other fair option is for the state to allow athletes to cross borders and play for whom they wish.

  334. colin says:

    So by your assessment then Erie cathedral prep then should not be allowed to compete in the PIAA. They have been dogged for years by people accusing them of such practices. I’ve read many stories and saw many posts calling them a “tri state all star team”….when it comes to PCC I think your splitting hairs a bit too much. So then is it ok for a team to have kids from anywhere in PA as long as they are From PA? If that’s the case then your argument is more of an ax to grind against Prep. Just the way it seems to me.

  335. paul sausmann says:

    @ Colin – all those kids were PA kids. Kids that lived and resided in PA. You know, the state that is having the title game. If any team, public or private, has kids on a team that DO NOT live in the Commonwealth, that team should not be able to compete for any PIAA sanctioned event.

  336. Billy Splain says:

    @Colin…yes, that’s very possible. It’s up to them but I believe that they are investigating that scenario.
    @Paul, the PCL had no bearing on moving to 6 classes. More than likely would have happened anyway. As for your comment about “players from another state”…what’s the difference whether a team lying directly on the state border has a few players from across the street compared to having players from 10 different in state districts?

  337. colin says:


    When PCC beat Neshaminy a few years ago with Eugene Jarvis at RB they had kids from over 10 different school districts. Can you please explain to me why they would be any different then a PCL team?

  338. paul sausmann says:

    @McD – those teams you had mentioned are exactly that; teams. The PCL is a league which caused a shift in the PIAA to where Gov Miff and WWL are now in the West. That’s insane to begin with. PCL coming into PIAA was driving force causing PA to jump up to 6 classes. The WPIAL had a really good thing going until now And yeah, if you really want another good answer; up until the addition of the PCL coming into our PIAA – how many of those teams that you mentioned won a PIAA title (the P standing for PENNSYLVANIA) a state title with NINE starters from another state – you know a state other than PA???

  339. colin says:


    Do you think it’s possible that the WPIAL could keep the same 4 class set up for their district playoffs then send out teams to states in 6 classes?…might be hard to do but could be possible.

  340. Billy Splain says:

    @ Mike F…what Phil said is correct……This is WAY early talk about this, but it was originally going to be a part of the 6 class proposal but Tonkin thought it may be too much change at once.

  341. Phil says:

    Mike F,

    Where ever they elect to start under the new system would be their base class. If they are ‘successful’ meaning they go to the state finals 2 years in a row during the 2 year cycle period, and win at least once they move up 1 classification.

    Every two year cycle they get re-evaluated based on a point system. They would either move up again, stay where they are at, or move back down to their base classification.

    2 examples from Indiana are Indianapolis Cathedral who is playing 6A this year and doing well!! They started out as 4A but won 2 years in a row, went to 5A and same thing happened, so this year they are at the highest classification. Lafayette Central moved from 1A to 2A because they won 2 years in a row also, but did not do well enough to stay there the next 2 year cycle and dropped back to 1A this year.

  342. Mike F says:


    How would that work for a team like Aliquippa. They are already playing up a class of their own choosing and they are one of the best AA programs. Would this success factor force them to move up?

  343. Billy Splain says:

    WPIAL has voted not to leave the PIAA..was Unanimous … I do agree that something should be done to make the system even more fair, but this is a start…rumor has it..(and its a good source) that if 6 classes is successful that new rules could be introduced, like the success factor rule forcing teams to move up based on a points system

  344. McD 65 pcl says:

    Paul, PCC ,Erie Cathedral,McDevitt ,Bethlehem Catholic ACC and other non PCL teams have been functioning for years in the PIAA under the same basic guidelines as the PCL. What does eliminating the PCL have to do with the WPIAL . You say they ruined the system. Why? because they won a few championships and the WPIAL didn’t. Things run in cycles . I will return to the East now. Just had to comment on your statement.

  345. paul sausmann says:

    I’m in favor of getting rid of the PCL and Philly altogether to keep the WPIAL in the PIAA. WPIAL is a huge loss compared to the addition of PCL. PCL ruined PA football as a whole and we really don’t need them in our system.

  346. Mike S says:

    I think the WPIAL will continue pretty much as it always has regarding schedules and they may even be able to play 4 WPIAL championship games, but for the state playoff’s, they’ll have to have a plan to send one team from each of the 6 classifications.

  347. Mike F says:

    If the WPIAL can’t continue, MikeS’s plan makes the most sense. But there should atleast be week 1 open to schedule who you please.

  348. Mike S says:

    One problem of the current system is cross-classification games. Sure, 2 schools who have a rivalry may want to continue playing even though one of them moves up or down a class, but a game like this one tonight between 1A Mercer and 3A Conneaut shouldn’t be played just because it’s a convenient and inexpensive busride from Linesville to Mercer. And I’m not saying Conneaut is so good it won’t be close, it’s just that on average those games would not be competitive and that’s when kids can get hurt. I’m sure Conneaut hopes for an easy victory and a breather game, but what is the incentive to play for a Mercer team that has a losing record even against other 1A teams. These cross-classification, fixed geographic boundaries for districts creates mismatch games like this one more “fluidity” would help.

  349. Mike S says:

    When I played football at Conneaut Valley there was not yet a football playoff system. My 1A Valley team that went undefeated and won the old Crawford County League would have loved a chance at a playoff, but looking now at how the system operates is really odd. With roughly 600 teams and if you have 6 classes, why not just list the schools by male student population from smallest to largest, make cut lines to divide into 6 equal groups (i.e., classes). U gues at least that part is being done.

    Put the schools for each class on a map and make individual geographic clusters for regular season games. That keeps the local rivalries. You do 8 clusters and either advance 1 team or 2 teams to playoffs, depending on how many rounds you want.

    These maps could then be redrawn how ever often that you recalculate school size, and new clusters drawn if a school moves up or down a class.

  350. Mike F says:

    i am torn on this. I love the WPIAL, and do not want to see it change. With that said, I agree the current setup for states is rediculous. I will say this, I never understood why some of those fringe schools choose to stay in the WPIAL instead of going to other districts where they could better compete and get in the State Playoffs. I guess competing for a WPIAL title is more important to some schools even though they are long shots.

  351. Billy Splain says:

    the regional aspect of the playoffs was one of the D7 concerns. They don’t want that (either) but in reality it IS what should happen. You would still play teams near you so the probability of an Erie team playing a philly team in the first two rounds would be nil…but that’s what is needed. I have said all along since they started the 6 class movement that Districts have too much control and aren’t looking at the statewide picture. The strange thing about this is the PIAA is not just some central office, it’s reps from every district making the decisions. I do think it should stay that way, however, I think the state needs a district redo. It is silly to think that D7 has 121 teams while we have districts like 8 with 7, 5 with 12, 9 with 26 and 10 with 41. It’s so out of proportion. Do I think that will change? no…though you could certainly move 5 into 6 and eliminate 5…move 8 into 7 and move so 7s into 9 to even it out a bit. Also, allowing teams to make deals not to play a game just because they make the playoffs is just flat out wrong…I do believe the 6 class format was a step in the right direction, but much more work needs to be done. Time to control some boundaries or something…I don’t believe separating private and public is an answer.

  352. Sykotyk says:

    Mike S, a lot of states have switched over to that style of scheduling and grouping of teams. It’s easy, and it takes the guesswork out of it. The only other real option is the Ohio way, and that’s where your 10-game schedule is a free-for-all. You earn points based on your victories, and you’re in a group with 27-32 other schools, with the top 8 advancing to the playoffs (except Division I, like 7A, it’s the top 72 largest schools, and only two regions, with top 16 qualifying). Then, in Division II through VII, it’s four regions. Region Champs move onto semifinals and then state championship games.

    The PA, NJ, NY, & CA style of sections or districts controlling things is wrong. At least in NY, the state playoffs, though using district alignments, is controlled entirely by the state and dictated to the sections exactly how to setup their playoffs (virtually every section handles their playoffs in the same manner). CA has an odd system, though they’re trying to fix it this year. But, PA, is without a doubt, a travesty. I know it would take some getting used to, but eliminating districts for playoffs, would be the correct step. You can keep districts for the regular season, and mostly for other sports. But, for football, you need diversity in the playoffs. A team from Mercer County playing a team from Erie County in the first round in 1A or 2A is overdone. Also knowing you’ll play a team you just played in the regular season within the first two or three weeks of the postseason is problematic in a 6-game tournament.

    Other than ‘because we say so’ it’s ridiculous a team from Mercer County and a team from Lawrence County are basically unable to ever play. Almost up to including playoffs with how rare advancing past your districts are.

  353. Mike S says:

    Don’t know if this is relevant to the PA change in classes, but I’ll explain how they do it in ALabama, where I live now – a state similar in size but with less than half the poulation or number of schools. Ala. has 7 classes, composed of 6 regular classes and 1 super-class.

    There are regions in each class, but they are more groupings of schools rather than fixed geographic regions. Each of the 6 classes has 8 regions, each composed of from 7-8 schools. The 7A superclass has 4 regions of 7-8 schools.

    In each region the teams play each other, plus a couple of out of region games that don’t count toward making playoffs. Within each region, top 2 teams make the playoff, yielding 16 teams in 1A-6A, and 8 teams in 7A.

    Things are divided North-South, and 7 title games are played over 4 days, alternating between the stadiums at Alabama and Auburn (previously at Legion Field in B’ham every year).

    There’s a LOT of travel because outside of the metro areas of Huntsville, Birmingham, Montgomery and Mobile, the schools are spread out, especially in smaller classifications, sometimes just one high school in the county seat and another for the entire rest of the county. The level of play is high because the kids work hard because there is a lot of parity, except for the 7A superclass where there is actually the greatest variation in school size where the largest is Hoover, AL (what we call Hoover University) which has about 2000 total students in grades 10-12.

    I love PA HS football but many schools have teams dying on the vine because of decreased enrollments and disinterest in the game. Kids of this era won’t play if they don’t have a chance to win. Back in the day when I played at little 1A Conneaut Valley, we had 35-40 guys (9-12 grade) on the team. Now CV has been combined with Conneat Lake and Linesville to create Conneaut Area Senior High (just about the smallest 3A school in the state) and as well as that team is doing this season because of a couple of great seniors in Hunter Merritt and Henry Litwin, they had only 35 players last year and 41 this year. They should have 60. I don’t think it’s a problem just at CASH. The reality is that some sort of shakeup to the system is needed.

  354. Billy Splain says:

    Mike, times have changed since you went to school. The kids I talk to while covering all prefer a state title to a WPIAL title. I just talked to 2 very prominent players this past weekend who have won a state title and they said no way would they trade a state title for the wpial title. It is important to them. The only difference being they like Heinz over Hershey…who wouldn’t? In a recent interview both Rossi of SF and Render of USC said flat out they’d never rank the wpial title over the state title…
    as for attendance, there is a misplace sentiment that the scheduling in the WPIAL has to change for 6 classes. It doesn’t. They can still play their same schedules, the only change comes during the playoffs. Tim O’Malley, the president of the wpial, has been on record as saying that D7 would make more money holding separate title games but they want that Heinz experience. That tells me playoff attendance is not a problem.
    As for teams traveling, we won’t have any way of knowing that until it happens. My gut feeling is that those who still attend games will continue to do so. And if they do have different matchups the intrigue of playing someone new will probably draw more fans. In a way you could say that D7 fans have become complacent, knowing that their team is going to blow out “team x” every year so they don’t go. My advice for all D7 fans is to embrace change, I believe it will be good for HS football

  355. Mike F says:

    For some reason auto correct is kills me on this site. It should not read” love fe, but should “life is”

  356. Mike F says:

    Chris, that is my point, tell DuBois to man up. Love fe is not fair get use to it. With over 500 boys in a school, it shouldn’t be a problem finding 50 boys who can be equals of a school twice the size. Yes there would be more depth at the bigger school, but if the work ethic/culture is strong they can make do. Look no farther than Woodland Hills, McKeesport, and your USC. All of them have been smaller 4A teams, that have competed successfully in the past 10 years. Also clairton is still single A under the new setup. When they can beat the new AAA champ you know it is diluted.

  357. Chris says:

    I am an Upper St. Clair Grad, but sorry WPIAL, this isn’t all about you! The ideal system would have been 5 classes for public and 2 classes for prep/private. The 6 class system is a step in the right direction. DuBois for example has 562 male enrollment going against McDowell at 993 and State College at 889.

  358. Mike F says:

    This articles seem to tell a different picture. It is from the Lehigh Vally from 2010, but I would expect the story to be similar all throughout PA, especially in urban areas of Philly, Pittsburgh, Erie, and to a lesser extent Scranton, Lancaster, and Harrisburg. My in the more isolated areas, it may not be as noticeable.

  359. Phil says:

    Mike F. – Plan on taking in a WPIAL game this week so I’ll see what the crowd is like. From the games I’ve been to so far this year 3 have been overflow crowds and 1 had more than expected. Only DuBois-Meadville was I disappointed in the attendance if you can believe it. It may just be a WPIAL thing but not sure because there are places that get huge crowds, Pine-Richland for example. I do know for a fact that attendance keeps going down at Heinz. Too long of a day with TV. I may not go this year. I firmly believe the opposite of you with 6 classes though. For one the WPIAL Championships should not have more than 3 games in one day at any location which may increase crowd size. I think crowds will be bigger too because there will be new teams and their communities who will experience the WPIAL and state finals plus the season will end earlier so the weather may not (on average) play as much of a factor. Other than me who wants to sit in 20 degree weather for 2 1/2 hours. But Mike, we can debate this till we’re blue in the face, only time will tell.

  360. Mike F says:

    Billy, I am not sure why it is always auto correcting to Bully. Sorry about that.

  361. Mike F says:

    Sorry guys but the WPIAL is special, it is not as simple as playing else where. I went to Seton LaSalle and Canevin in the mid to late 90’s, and all we cared about was making it to 3Rivers Sotadium. That was the goal to play for the WPIAL championship. Never once was playing for a state title talked about, we didn’t care about it. My nephew is now at USC and all they talk about is WPIAL championship.

    Neither of you guys are addressing my thesis. That attendance at the great majority of schools are already going down. I feel that 6 classes will only speed the decline farther due to farther travel with a base not interested in away games to begin with.

    How do you feel 6 classes will improve this, and believe me this is important because economics do matter.

  362. Phil says:

    @ Mike F

    Do have to agree with Billy as the WPIAL spends all that money for 8 teams to use a facility when the money could be far better spent to help those poorer schools with travel. Speaking of which, try living in the boonies where almost every away game is an hour or more. I really believe it is just another excuse for not having 6 classes by the only area that voted against it. And apology accepted Mike. Let’s just get together and move on and figure out a way to make it work. The WPIAL should leave everything alone and in some manner figure out who the top teams in the 6 classes are for playoffs at year end. It shouldn’t be too hard other than which 3-6 team is the last one in.

  363. Mike F says:


    This is from the 6 class thread. Yes 20 miles does matter. Again this is not the 90’s anymore. Back then we where saying how our population is getting older. In 2015 they are old and dying. Younger people don’t go to games like they use to. The second game of the season, Upper St. Clair played 5 miles down the road against Peters Township, I am guessing USC had 1,500 to 2,000 fans their. I would venture to say they have 4,-6000 fans at home games. This is 5 miles down the road, why didn’t the fans come? This is not a story unique to USC, but most PA schools.

  364. me888 says:

    Mike? What? There’s no airport in Birmingham? Erie and Meadville both have em’! 😉

  365. Billy Splain says:

    piss poor excuse mike…lol

  366. Mike S says:

    I’d cover it Prep/Tech or Conneaut/Mdv, but I live 900 mi away in Birmingham, AL.

  367. Billy Splain says:

    Sure wish we had someone to cover that Prep/Tech game

  368. Mike S says:

    Cathedral Prep v. Erie Central Tech is an interesting game. Some say Prep lost too many great players off last year’s team, but with an 80 player roster, they reload, not just rebuild. But Erie Central Tech is good and getting better and has a powerful rushing attack. Should be a good game.

    Conneaut travels to Meadville, who want revenge for a 56-0 blowout loss from last season. They think Journey brown and their other good RB’s can deliver the upset. Another top game college coaches are traveling to in order to lay eyes on Brown and Merritt and Litwin of Conneaut.

  369. mike says:

    Well, Dubois just got shut down even more by Cathedral Prep, just scoring 13. So certainly the 90 they put up on Meadville was not a reflection of anything other than incompetent pass defense by the Bulldogs. Someone’s going to need to teach defense @ Dubois to go along with the emphasis on offense.

    And so far CP looks like it has reloaded from last season after losing a lot of great players to graduation. But when you get 90 kids to go out for football, good things happen.

  370. Chris says:

    Conneaut is good, not doubt. But don’t discount DuBois, it was an “interesting” game to say the least.

  371. Billy Splain says:

    Agreed Mike, this is “the year” for that team…hopefully they’ll just reload.

  372. Mike S says:

    Nice to see Conneaut shut down Dubois’ passing attack and win 56-21. Dubois QB went from 782 yds to just 208, and Dubois from 90 pts to 21, and shut out in second half. All while Conneaut lost 3 fumbles. Stars on the Conneaut team are QB/S Hunter Merritt and WR/S Henry Litwin (who also runs some wildcat), but also Taylor Williams, H-back/DE, who catches the ball well. All seniors. 2016 will be a huge rebuilding year for a senior-dominated Conneaut team, so they have to make the most of 2015.

  373. paul sausmann says:

    pafootballrules, good link/article, tx.

  374. "G" says:

    Thank you Paul for the information. If there is a game that I need I will surely get in touch with you.

  375. paul sausmann says:

    “G” – send me an email at and I’ll send you a copy of the games list I have put together. just a list of good games from around the state and country that I put together over the seasons. when you email me, just put “G” in the subject bar w/ high school football or something like that. I will email you a copy of the list and the “skinny” on the list and how to get the games.

  376. pafootballrules says:

    saw this from someone on twitter… seems philly is catching up with the private football factories out west as well.

  377. "G" says:

    Paul, I think I missed something, could you bring me up to speed? What games are you talking about?

  378. paul sausmann says:

    hey all – I got everybody’s games out to them except one of you. for the Woody High sports nut, I have your games copied and ready to be sent. check your inbox please. and sorry I don’t know who you are on here since you sent the email and only left your real name attached with your email which I don’t use on a public site. (you wanted four woody games and the PCC v USC 04′ game at Heinz). everyone else should have their games already in hand. enjoy the games and the rest of the season. anyone else interested shoot me an email at and I’ll send you the games list. adiose amigos

  379. "G" says:

    Thanks Billy! I will always be kind. lol
    We have a big game this week against a much improve GCC. The first test.

  380. rob says:

    South Fayette is the no 1 small school until proven otherwise.

  381. Phil says:

    In case anyone missed it. Meadville beat DuBois Friday night 107-90 in a game for the ages. Over 12 state and 9 national records may have been broken. Journey Brown from Meadville ran for 724 yards and 10 TDs. Could have been eleven, but had one called back due to holding. He is only a junior and also had 70 yards in kickoff returns. DuBois’ sophomore QB, Matt Miller, passed for 782 yards and 10 TDs in his first varsity game. He also ran for a score. He was injured and did not play in week one. Both teams combined for over 1,900 yards of offense 🙂

  382. Billy Splain says:

    G…welcome to the site….we need more chatter on our forum…get the trash talk started! But be

  383. "G" says:

    Jason Sullivan, The Clairton Bears are ready to roll!

  384. Kmac says:


    Great to see Bill “Short Picks” on eastern and western PA football! Congratulations Dave and Bill for getting it together. The comments were closed on the Short Pick thread, so I had to comment here. This is a MUST READ every week before the slate of games. Great job!

  385. Jason Sullivan says:

    Did anyone see university prep take on clariton last Saturday……. I hear the university prep team physically beat clariton up? Does uprep have what it takes to make a serious run in states or ins clariton not as good ass last year?

  386. splitbacks says:

    Just glad everyone was healthy

  387. Billy Splain says:

    Tell us about your scrimmages!

  388. Billy Splain says:

    it’d be unfair of me to leak out info…so for my picks you’ll have to wait for the rankings countdown…

  389. Keaton says:

    What’s your guys picks for the SLEEPERS or underdogs in WPIAL in each classification?

  390. Billy Splain says:

    oops, August 16 is when we begin our rankings

  391. Billy Splain says:

    @football fan: I believe our countdown starts August 9 and we’ll release one per day until the first game.

  392. football fan says:

    when does pre season rankings come out

  393. Billy Splain says:

    Somerset will also be very good in AAA, and can’t overlook Conneaut again this year….I agree that SC will be a contender in 4A. In AA I don’t think anyone will beat the quips but Hickory should give them a for A, once again it’s clairtons game to lose, though Brothersvalley and Sharpsville will be very good.

  394. Phil says:

    @ football fan
    Just my humble opinion:
    St. College will be very good in AAAA
    Erie Prep is going to be a threat in AAA
    Possibly Hickory in AA
    Probably no one in single A, but that’s why they play the game. You never know! Someone could be lurking that surprises everyone. That goes for all classes.
    Anyone out there care to chime in on what teams are doing well at the 7 on 7s in the west? Haven’t heard a whole lot.

  395. football fan says:

    Any teams (outside district 7) be able to compete and beat the top WPIAL schools? And go to Hershey?

  396. Billy Splain says:

    Darrin…where the heck ya been?? I don’t think S Fayette will be rebuilding …they’re reloading. Saw them at a 7v7 ….instead of BB, Hhayes will carry them…as for the rest, I agree…give me a shout some time…

  397. takeaguessricc says:

    How come nobody ever picks Altoona anymore? They lost their powerhouse reputation when Dalton left the program. Thats why. Riccio needs to leave the whole organization; he’s been ruining the program for iver a decade now. The amount of hazing he does with kids with actual talent (but no booster money) is ridiculous. You should never single out kids and treat them like dirt on the practice field just because their parents don’t donate 100k plus a year to the boosters. Altoona get rid of the cancer and find a cure….no matter what coach you put in there will always have to abide by Riccios rulings. You take the head off of the snake and good things will come. Lets turn this into powerhouse football again. Toona!

  398. Darrin says:

    Solid picks their my friend! I think W. Hills may be a little to athletic and fast for PCC. The other picks should be a highly safe bet, TJ is the TJ of old from wat I hear. We all know wat that means, Alliquipa is as always LOADED, not to mention S. Fayette is in a rebuilding phase but will still be solid. As far as Clairton goes, I don’t see anybody even giving them a competitive contest until deep in the playoffs! But it’s a long season so we will see what happens, my other picks are PCC, McKeesport and N. Allegheny. They could all make it, so AAAA Will be interesting! In AAA I think W. Allegheny is a contender along with W. Mifflin. Just really don’t see either being able to beat TJ! A and AA I do not think anybody will be able to stop mighty Alliquipa or Clairton! Just to much speed, talent and athletic ability!!

  399. phillyboy says:

    @ football fan

    AAAA – Woodland Hills
    AAA – Thomas Jefferson
    AA – Aliquippa
    A – Clairton

    No, must confess I got “inside information” from Darrin in regards to Woody and TJ, in regards to AA and A, without having any idea what’s up who else am I going to pick? Sure hope D7 has strong representatives in states like usual.

  400. football fan says:

    predictions top teams in each division to make it to Hershey?

  401. barton says:

    Check out LB Bauer from Erie Prep!!! Only will be a sophomore in fall, has the most intensity of any Defensive player seen in many years!

  402. Darrin says:

    Let’s not forget about Woodland Hills or McKeesport . Those two and PCC are neck and neck with N. Allegheny as the dark horse. All of those top 3 are flush w D1 Talent, and have Legendary Coaches! Should make for an excellent season in top tier Quad A WPIAL Football!

  403. Billy Splain says:

    football fan…in the west it’s all about PCCC

  404. Norelco says:

    Beaver Falls has lots of skill and some monsters on their line and Most of the rosters stars are juniors!!

  405. football fan says:

    Top defenses in AAA & AAAA western football?

  406. McD 65 pcl says:

    Paul sausmann, Just wanted to know if you received the e mail I sent you last night, it was under the name r.romeo.regarding the games available .

  407. Kmac says:


    Thank you once again for your kind offer. Last year i was deeply involved otherwise and did not take you up in your offer. This year I am on the cusp of some vacation away time and (hopefully) minor surgery. Hopefully, by mid-July I can make contact with you by your email address. Thank you again.

  408. paul sausmann says:

    KMAC – saw your post about not seeing too many WPIAL games/teams. send me an email at and in the subject bar put WPIAL games. I will respond with an attachment called “games list”. Open it and check out any of the games you want to see from WPIAL or D10 and I’ll get them copied and sent to check out. No charge for my games. I will explain the rest in email. This offer is good for any PA football fan interested in catching some good PA games from the 1990’s to present day. Over 500 total games to choose from (about 300 from PA, the rest from around the USA). hit me up, check out the list, and grab a few good games before the season starts.

  409. Billy Splain says:

    Good picks Phil..ttys..
    Hey D10 guys, any of you going to the north/south game at GM? I’ll be there covering…always good to meet fans of the site!

  410. Phil says:

    I’m polishing off my crystal ball for the 2015 season. Apparently things haven’t changed much from my January predictions. So here we go:

    District 6-8-9-10
    Class AAAA

    1) State College
    2) Erie McDowell
    3) DuBois

    District 9
    Class AAA

    1) Clearfield
    2) Punxsutawney

    Class AA

    1) Karns City
    2) St. Marys

    Class A

    1) Brockway
    2) Curwensville
    3) Clarion

    Western PA
    Class AAAA

    1) Pittsburgh Central Catholic
    2) State College
    3) North Allegheny
    4) Woodland Hills
    5) McKeesport

    Class AAA

    1) West Allegheny
    2) Erie Cathedral Prep
    3) Thomas Jefferson
    4) Somerset
    5) Clearfield

    Class AA

    1) Aliquippa
    2) Hickory
    3) South Fayette
    4) Karns City
    5) Bedford

    Class A

    1) Clairton
    2) Penns Manor
    3) Berlin Brothers
    4) Avonworth
    5) Brockway

  411. DISTRICT 10 says:

    No doubt Ty. That Region is a bear! Sharpsville has depth every year. Probebly could insert them at the number 2 spot. 3 District championships in the last 4 years for that team.

  412. Ty says:

    Never count out Sharpsville. Ever.

    West Middlesex will be strong and so will Farrell but we’ve learned never ever ever count Sharpsville out.

  413. Billy Splain says:

    We won’t miss Hickory this year.

  414. DISTRICT 10 says:


    1. Hickory
    2. Slippery Rock
    3. Greenvile

    1. Farrell
    2. Cambridge Springs
    3. West Middlesex

  415. Billy Splain says:

    Hi all..I started my 100 Players in 100 Days series. I am working on team previews next. I am going to start putting together my preseason rankings.

    Please post your top teams in each classification. Thanks!


    Class AAAA

    Class AAA

    Class AA

    Class A

  416. Billy Splain says:

    we don’t have it yet?

  417. McD 65 pcl says:

    Erie cathedral preps schedule does not appear on the team schedule list ,any reason?

  418. Mike F says:

    Selfiness because we do not see a reason to fix something that isn’t broken? Best interest for the players? Most fans pay very little attention to A and AA already. Watch how little attention those classes get now with 2 more bigger classes. I use Ohio again as my example when there lowest division team champ handily beat the champs from the next two divisions bigger. Yeah that isn’t watered down fiasco they have there.

  419. Phil says:

    Joel, your comment hit the nail on the head. That selfishness is the biggest reason some are against the 6 class proposal.
    Thanks, Billy, to you and any one else involved in putting together the 100 players in 100 days.

  420. Joel says:

    If schools/teams/leagues are fighting this 6 class proposal, its only due to selfish reasoning, and not indicitive of someone looking out for for the best interest of the football players in PA.

  421. Mike F says:

    Phil, I can’t wait to see the 10 schools big enough to be AAAAAA get their butts handed to them by a AAAA school.

  422. Phil says:

    Happy Memorial Day high school football fans. Here’s hoping the PIAA Board takes heed to the vast majority of coaches, ADs, and kids playing the game, and votes in the 6 class proposal. Love to see some more games and different teams.

  423. Billy Splain says:

    no edit buttons here..

  424. Chuck Lewis says:

    Question: anyway to edit my responses ?

  425. Chuck Lewis says:

    Billy Splain, talked to some PPC insiders who mentioned 3 teams who they expect to be strong , North allegheny coached by Art Walker Jr (central’s coach in 04), Woodland Hills in the west and St Joe’s in the east.

  426. Chuck Lewis says:

    Kmac, saw Imhotep play Youngstown Mooney at YSU stadium a couple of years back. They a ton of talent on that team. I was shocked when they got beat badly in Hershey. But, I was surprised when PPC got beat soundly the Prep in 2013. You just never know. Oh and thanks for your mention of the 2004 Central team. What a team that was, no question one of the best teams of all time in Pa and the best I ever saw in person.

  427. McD 65 pcl says:

    CHUCK, I agree with you on PCC as the favorite in the West. In the east in AAA Imhotep charter has an unbelievable 10 D-1 athletes on this years squad. Its too bad PCC and Imhotep wont have the chance of playing one another .

  428. Kmac says:

    Chuck Lewis

    As an eastern guy (I live on the Delaware River bank, you can’t get any farther east in PA); I seldom to get to see the great western teams in person. But I did see the 2004 PCC State final in Hershey. In my book, the greatest high school team I ever saw. I do not know how many D1 prospects they had but they had 9 all-staters, a great club. Great to see the names of the fine schools you have listed; thank you Chuck.

  429. Billy Splain says:

    Chuck, they will be in my top 5 on the westernpa site for sure…They’re loaded…it’s going to be a heck of a battle out there between them, woody and pine-richland

  430. Chuck Lewis says:

    That’s right Central has 8 returning players with D1 offer s ranging from the MAC, ACC, SEC, Big 12 and Big 10. They have 4 players with Penn State offers. This is going to be one of their best teams bar none.

  431. Chuck Lewis says:

    I find it interesting if not crazy that Pittsburgh Central Catholic has not been given hardly a mention as a pre season favorite. What other team in the state has 8 players with D1 at this very moment other than Central. The WPIAL teams to beat in Quad A are as follows and in this order. PCC, Woodland Hills, North Allegheny , PennTrafford , McKeesport, Pine Richland and probably USC. One of these teams will represent the West in Hershey.

  432. Billy Splain says:

    the latest on 6 classes:

  433. Billy Splain says:

    No Doubt Mark, SC will be very tough

    Joel, the proposal passed the first reading….they’ll have a second go round in June

  434. Mark says:

    @Football fan
    State College. Lions are going to be the team to beat.

  435. Billy Splain says:

    @Joel, there will more than likely be a reading of the proposal at the May 20 PIAA meeting. Will keep you posted.

  436. Joel says:

    Any updates on the six class proposal?

  437. football fan says:

    who do you think will win the mid penn commonwealth this year?

  438. McD 65 pcl says:

    can anyone tell me where tackle Myles Turner from Bishop McDevitt going to school next year. He was a very good player the pasr couple years ,but I haven’t seen him listed on any recruitment lists, Thanks

  439. Joel says:

    Well, if they do Mark…They won’t until 2016.

  440. Mark says:

    Rumor that Mifflin County may move down to AAA? Anyone hear anything?

  441. David Mika says:

    Happy Easter everyone!

  442. Billy Splain says:

    just a quick update on the 6 class issue: This weekend the ADs Delegate Assembly voted unanimously to support that the PIAA look at all sports classifications.
    The AAA and A groups (in their group meetings) stated just 6 classifications in football.

    Wed. there is a strategic planning meeting (the chairmen from the 12 districts) to discuss the classification.
    This is an important group to get support from.

    With their blessing the 1st official vote would be at the May Board meeting.

  443. Billy Splain says:

    Nathan, I don’t think State College will surprise anyone. They’ll be a favorite throughout the season. The Little Lions gave notice to the league in the playoffs last year that they’ll be a contender. Welcome to the site.

  444. Nathan says:

    State College is one of the best teams in the state and they are going to surprise a lot of people. Be sure to watch them this year.

  445. McD 65 pcl says:

    Billy Splain, I need to get educated more before I do any Western projections. I am learning a great deal from these posts. The only projection I would feel comfortable would be D-7 Quad A Woodland Hills .

  446. Billy Splain says:

    Darrin, I agree with those picks in the west.

  447. Darrin says:

    Preseason picks for player of the year, this is kind of easy this season in the WPIAL
    Big School: Miles Sanders RB- Woodland Hills
    Small School: Lamont Wade RB- Clairton

  448. Darrin says:

    You are very correct w that statement Kmac. Two awesome teams that never reached their full potential. They did get Coach Nola from Clairton last year, and did not have their usual success at Gateway. I have heard from people close to the program that they had a great deal of talent that was about a year away. So all that young talent on top of Gateway being in AAA for the second year, I think they will be a force this season! Should be a great year for that area, Gateway and Woodland Hills are bordered by each other, it’s basically the same town.

  449. Darrin says:

    Philly good to hear from you. Yes you are correct about Woodland Hills, they need to finish the season. They always have crazy amounts of talent. Trust me they are absolutely loaded this year, and with there size up front they almost look like a college team. So hopefully they stay healthy and finish strong. They will be a very tough opponent for anybody if they are on there game!

  450. Billy Splain says:

    McD: Let’s see your picks, heck, let’s see everyones picks for districts 5,6,7,8,9 and 10:

    Class AAAA

    Class AAA

    Class AA

    Class A

  451. McD 65 pcl says:

    phillyboy, I think if North Penns quarterback improves versus a not so good 2014 ,they will be a contender. North penn doesn’t throw very much at all anyway. They like to pound it behind a big o line. I saw Council Rock last year in probably one of their worst performances so I really missed the dual threat QB at his best. North Penn will challenge this year in my opinion. Im a D-12 guy ,but also follow many of the D-1 teams. I saw North Penn three times last year all losses, but think they are ready this year to do some payback.

  452. Kmac says:


    Actually both Woodland Hills and Seton-LaSalle were the 2002 championships, but I did go in 2004 also.


    That would be something indeed with the Rock North QB. I have no problem with the Knights, but I get to see McIlwain about 6 miles from home at the Rock.

  453. phillyboy says:

    Wow, I hope Woodland Hills lives up to their potential. Would love to see them bring it. Besides, those guys are due for a state title. They’re like the Credence Clearwater Revival (most top 10 hits without a #1) of PIAA football.

    Yo Kmac, wouldn’t it be cool if North Penn could recruit the Council Rock QB? Give the privates a taste of their own medicine, you die by the sword you live by the sword. Would love to see North Penn get it rolling again.

  454. Kmac says:


    Familiar names even to an “Eastern” guy. Brings some thoughts to mind. I saw Woody High and Seton-LaSalle play in the 2002 and 2004 state championships; the only two years I have seen them in person. And I always considered Gateway and Easton as the best two western and eastern teams that never played for a state title. I saw Tom Nola went to Gateway last season and thought they might roar, but it didn’t quite happen.

  455. Darrin says:

    Here’s my picks for Dist.7 (WPIAL)
    Woodland Hills
    West Allegheny
    Thomas Jefferson
    Seton Lasalle
    Beaver Falls

  456. McD 65 pcl says:

    Dave Mika, Why not do the same top three in each District for the West as you did for the East. I for one ,would be interested in fan input on the topic.

  457. McD 65 pcl says:

    Billy Splain, Would I be correct if I make the statement that District 7 this coming year may have the most teams that have the talent in quad A that could win it all. I have been hearing from Darrin,Phil,Kmac among others that there could be as many as 6 teams capable of beating the eastern champ. I am from District 12 and familiar with saint Joe Prep.They lost many starters ,but do return 2 very good running backs and a few other key players from last years championship team. Im not sure that they have the horses to get through a difficult schedule and then the playoffs . It could very well be Woodland Hills time to shine.

  458. Billy Splain says:

    Hey guys, good to see some action here. I’ll go further in the AAAA predictions and say State College will be one of the top 10, possibly top 5 in the state. They return almost their entire team from last year and if you remember, they gave Pine-Richland a run for their money. Woodland Hills is probably going to be my western pick, we’ll probably see those two battle it out for Hershey.

  459. Phil says:

    McD 65 pcl,
    Yes, St. College will be in the hunt as they return some key people including a top notch RB. With the number of kids they have plus playing in the tough Mid Penn Conference, they are usually prepared to make runs every year even if their record doesn’t always show it. Also, being in the D-6,8,9,10 “region” for playoffs helps too as they avoid the D-3 and D-7 teams till later. DuBois does have some good numbers now and has a wide open offense that is fun to watch. They just need to be a little more solid defensively. They feel they should have beaten St. College last year, but 5 turnovers and 2 TDs called back will not win too many playoff games. But that’s football and got to give St. College credit for playing well.

  460. McD 65 pcl says:

    Phil, Thanks for the D-9 info. About a thousand years ago I saw DuBois play at home when they could nor field very competitive teams. I just happen to be in that area on business and decide to stay for the game. Im really glad to see they have developed a solid program and will be highly competitive again this year. They had a bunch of scholarship kids last year I read somewhere.Erie Cathedral always seems to have solid teams with great athletes year after year. Will State College be in the state playoff picture this year ? I saw several games there the evening before Penn State games a few years back when they played LaSalle for the State quad A title.

  461. Phil says:

    Guys, I too love high school football and will travel far occasionally too see what I think will be a good game. Don’t get to check in on this website everyday this time of year as am busy with work and soon with my son’s baseball. Being from district 9, I get to see a lot of good games especially single A, but the teams for the most part are not competitive with the state’s better teams. And that’s why I like to see other teams from other districts in all classes. Last couple of years travelled to Erie, Seneca Valley, NA, Heinz Field, Hershey, Downingtown, Altoona, Tyrone, Slippery Rock, etc. From my area, DuBois should be good again this year, possibly going 8-2 or 9-1. Clearfield has a great coach and will always have good teams with him at the helm. Brockway has 4 or 5 very good players who could help them win districts this year. Curwensville has a tremendous RB who had 1600 yards last year as a freshman. Up in Erie, Prep will have a sophomore QB that has a lot of potential. Saw him play JV and a few plays on varsity last year. He was impressive. I am not a coach, so my eye may miss things scouts and recruiters see. Anyhow, look forward to a lot more posts here and eventually some football action. Thanks guys.

  462. McD 65 pcl says:

    Kmac and Darrin, I agree that D-1s glory days are mostly in the past as far as competing for state titles,not that they wont be fielding solid teams. I live close to Memorial stadium in Doylestown,and miss those Friday Night lights watching the great CB West teams year in and year out. When coach Pettine retired and CB South opened it was the end of a lengthy era of great fooItball at West. I have 3 grown kids that attended Archbishop Wood so I have naturally been following them since my own high school is no longer relevant in the sport due to declining enrollment. District 12 has 2 potential Public league challengers that I continue to hear about in quad A MLKing and Simon Gratz, both from North Philly,but I doubt they will be able to keep up with the Prep at the end of the day.Imhotep will rule in AAA with maybe a challenge from Wood,but I doubt it this year.

  463. Kmac says:

    McD 65 pcl and Darrin

    Of course my other post is before this; that said this is a follow. IMO Neshaminy in 2013 and Pennsbury in 2014 were two of the strongest teams at those schools in quite some time but neither could get by Prep of D12. North Penn has wins over D12 and got to the title match in 2011. All three put out competitive teams annually. But Neshaminy is changing coaches for the second year in a row; Pennsbury lost a ton of talent to graduation, and North Penn has to rebuild the line again, but always does. The outstanding player in my area is Brandon McIlwain, Sr QB Council Rock North, a South Carolina commit. But the Rock has not made the noise that the other three I mentioned in playoffs. It is a highly regarded academic institution and all the sports teams are usually in the top echelons of rankings. We will have to see what the Indians can build around McIlwain.

  464. Kmac says:

    McD 65 pcl and Darrin

    As I mentioned earlier I am a history buff, and looking at District 1 from that perspective I have to feel that D1 has had its day in the sun, but I hope I am wrong. The CB West run 6 appearances, 4 titles is unmatched in 4A. And Ridley (long ago), Downingtown, Neshaminy, North Penn,and Coatesville have been there with some additional titles. It has been harder in recent times; neither 4A nor 3A could get by D12 representatives in general. D1 is numerically challenged in team numbers in 2A and 1A, and has not played at the level that other districts have attained, again in general.

  465. Darrin says:

    @McD 65
    Woodland Hills is a very good team, been a while since I have seen a team w that much talent. It’s not just their skill and speed, their size on the Lines is truly impressive! If they stay healthy, I think they will be very hard to beat. But as I mentioned before, McKeesport is very talented. Khaleke Hudson is an absolute beast, along w that Triple Option Flexbone attack. Mckeesport vs W. Hills will be a showdown, so much talent and speed, along w two legendary Coaches!

  466. McD 65 pcl says:

    Thanks Darrin,I have been hearing a lot about Miles Sanders and have seen his film. I think with that surrounding cast they should be the team to beat in the state. I know the Prep with D andre Swift and a few other D-1 prospects are expected to take D-12 quad A ,and I heard Parkland is loaded also. If I were to make a wild early prediction for the state champ it would be Woodland Hills. I know that will stir things up I bet. Anyone in D-1 Kmac?

  467. Darrin says:

    @McD 65 & Kmac
    Hey my friends, I wanted to also mention my preseason pick to take the WPIAL in AAAA. Woodland Hills is absolutely loaded w talent on both sides of the ball. They feature Miles Sanders at RB, he was one James Franklins first recruits to commit to PSU, in the summer of last yr. Kid is a legit RB who can do it all, size and speed to go w great vision. They have a few other D1 kids who play skill positions, but this team is built around their MASSIVE lines, both on Off.&Def. They have multiple D1 kids on their line and Avg 6’4 and close to 300Lbs. They are also coached by the legendary George Novak! My to other teams to watch in this class are McKeesport and North Allegheny. Both of them have plenty of talent, Mckeesport features national recruit Khaleke Hudson. He is a stud on both sides of the ball, playing a key role in HC George Smiths Flexbone Offense, which is SO HARD to prepare for let alone defend. You just don’t see the Triple Option enough anymore and it is very hard to get your scout team to emulate it well enough to prepare your team. They are masterful at running this Offense. N. Allegheny finished very strong last yr with a lot of underclassmen. Look for them to make a lot of noise. I will post my thoughts on AAAA soon here, as well as some players to watch in all classes in the WPIAL.

  468. McD 65 pcl says:

    Kmac and Darrin, I too am an older high school football follower and fan who can only go to selected games now,but used to attend an average of 3 to 4 games each weekend.I used to travel around the state to see highly rated teams. I guess the three of us are on both East and West forums. Darrin, I hope you continue to keep us posted on District 7 and in particular your squad. This promises to be another banner year.

  469. Kmac says:


    I am glad you did come over to ePAf. very happy to hear anything from the mighty WPIAL area of D7, and the West in general. I am an “old guy” and only a fan of the game of high school football having never coached or played it. Being also history-minded; it is the history and the history-adding events and games and players that keep me going. Unfortunately, age and its various ills keep me pretty close to local games anymore. How does it look in the West this season? I know you spoke of some teams earlier, any recent developments?

  470. Darrin says:

    @McD 65, Kmac
    Yes this is a great site, but the level of interest is not what it is on the Eastern site. That’s why I am so often on the East site, if I post over their I will have multiple responses and conversations as soon as my post goes up. Here on Western sometimes I don’t see a response for a good week. I check this site multiple times a day, and will respond to any post or questions, but for some reason it just does not get the following as the East does. As I have said before, I am a Coach in Dist.7 (WPIAL) and I guess that would be my specialty, but I love talking all PA Football and Players!

  471. Kmac says:

    McD 65 pcl

    I just checked in on ePAf. I see what you mean!

  472. McD 65 pcl says:

    Kmac, its safer hanging out on the West Forum[omg},theres a war going on out east!!! ha ha

  473. Kmac says:

    McD 65 pcl

    As you do, I am primarily District 1 and also enjoy hearing about the other 11 districts as well. I agree that this site is a fine counterpoint to easternPAfootball and seems underused. There are 400 posts on the ePAf 2015 forum thread as of today. But 71 is a great improvement over the prior years on here. WPIAL has a site, but it doesn’t seem to update much, and Bleacher Coaches Forum seems District 5 and 6 oriented, and I have learned a lot from that.

  474. McD 65 pcl says:

    Kmac and Darren, I primarily follow District 12 and 1 however I have an interest I hearing about other Districts around the state in the different classifications. I am somewhat miffed at the low volume of forum comments from the Western part of the state on this forum. Is there another outlet that is used or reasons why this perceived or real lack of interest here ? I personally think this is a very good high school football site that is underutilized thus far this year. Your thoughts ???

  475. Mark says:

    Does anyone have any predictions on who will win the Mid Penn Commonwealth?

  476. Darrin says:

    @Mike F
    Very good point there my friend! The first game of the year is always a tough one, I always hope as a Coach that we do not draw a highly ranked opponent in Wk.1. Because you have not established your identity and worked out the kinks, in addition to settling possible position battles. It’s hard enough playing a tough WPIAL team, let alone a powerhouse from Ohio or on the National scene! All Coaches know you make your biggest strides from Wk. 1 to Wk. 2, especially on Offense! Great point Mike F!

  477. Kmac says:

    McD 65 pcl

    Unfortunately, I know of no other guide akin to the PFN which was state-wide. From viewing other postings and knowing my own area, there are some regional pre-season guides, but these are only local in content. Anyone out there with better information?

  478. McD 65 pcl says:

    Kmac, If PFN does not publish its guide this year, is there any other similar publication available that you know of ?

  479. Mike F says:

    I am not sure why the WPIAL does not allow it anymore, but I hated the Herbstreet contest because of the timing. The WPIAL team was always playing their first game of the year while the Ohio teams were playing their second game of the year. I hated that. If the WPIAL was to allow teams to play out of state again, I would hope that it would be a week 2 or 3 game and not week one.

  480. Kmac says:

    McD 65 pcl

    Not sure there will be a 2015 PFN Guide. I too got one every year, but the retirement of the former owners and originators of PFN make a new guide questionable.

  481. Darrin says:

    Yes it would make for some excellent games. But unless they have another Herbstreit Classic or a showcase like they had at Woodland Hills, I do not see it happening. I really enjoy those games and wish the WPIAL would be involved a little more often in making them possible!!

  482. McD 65 pcl says:

    Any idea when the 2015 PFN resource guide will be available? I have to get ready for the upcoming season; after all its only 6 months away!

  483. McD 65 pcl says:

    Phil, Im sure the administrators of the WPIAL have their reasons not to allow the out of state games. Perhaps its time for them to review their thinking and understand that the state in general would benefit from District 7 challenging selected big time teams within reasonable geography . District 7 has a lot to offer and I know there are a lot of fans that would agree that out of state games are becoming a high interest event for all.How could we influence a change ?

  484. Phil says:

    McD 65 pcl
    Totally agree with your point about D-7 gaining additional credibility if the WPIAL would allow their teams to play just one game with someone outside of D-7. Man, the possibilities would be endless! What ever happened to those Herbstreet Challenge games at the beginning of the year or similar all day events like the one at Woody High a few years ago?

  485. McD 65 pcl says:

    Thanks billy splain, that’s just what I was looking for.

  486. McD 65 pcl says:

    Just an observation, I continue to read about players from Pittsburg cc being offered division 1 scholarships .Truly impressive . They may be again ,one of the top aaaa teams in the state. Who nout west should be on the watch list ?

  487. McD 65 pcl says:

    phil, that would be great. What is the wpial administration concerned about. I think it would certainly gain additional credibility to an already superb football district.

  488. Billy Splain says:

  489. McD 65 pcl says:

    Darrin thanks,another question,do you know which schools in the west have the larger male enrollments in aaaa. Im just trying to educate myself a bit on that part of the state. Thanks

  490. Phil says:

    Would you not agree that IF the WPIAL would release their teams to find even one game it might make for some tremendous match ups with the eastern teams or surrounding states. Just one of many examples would be N. Allegheny playing Don Bosco from NJ or Cleveland St. Ignatius. I think it would be great not only for the players, but fans too.

  491. Darrin says:

    McD 65 PCL
    The only reason I know of is that the WPIAL does all scheduling for its teams. Schedules are done and set very early in the year, and about the only thing that WPIAL teams can schedule on there own is a preseason scrimmage or a Week 10 game if a team does not make the Playoffs. The WPIAL is a HIGHLY controlling governing body, I don’t see this changing anytime soon.

  492. McD 65 pcl says:

    Darrin, I noted your explanation on the eastern forum in reference to the wpial vs out of stste teams. Is there any reason why they have this restriction. I believe other schools in the west are allowed to do so. just interested to know if you have the answer, thanks

  493. Darrin says:

    @McD 65 pcl
    That is a very good point, it does have a “ripple” effect. As I stated I know that it certainly is not all privates, there seems to be schools that continually do this. Unfortunately this is the way it is, and as I have stated several times it is not changing anytime soon. There does seem to be a much higher occurrence in the East, especially the Philly area.

  494. McD 65 pcl says:

    Darrin I came from a Catholic High School in the Philadelphia Catholic League. There is definitely recruiting among some of the league members. I will add that often this recruiting impacts other schools in the league not just public schools. case in point,my former school is on the verge of being the next to close its doors due to enrollment declines. Many of the athletes that would normally attend this school know of the potential for closing and often decide to attend one of the other league members that have decent athletic teams to begin with .Some are recruited and others are not.There was a time years ago that some of the Philadelphia Catholic League schools had male enrollments of 2-3000 and certainly had no need to recruit. Unfortunately those days are gone.

  495. Darrin says:

    Mike F
    Yes for sure it happens both at public and privates, and as I said in my earlier posts, it’s not all privates/Catholics. But it is not ANYWHERE comparible when you compare the rate at which there is recruiting at privates/catholic schools vs a public school! Not even close in any way shape or form!

  496. Mike F says:

    I am a Canevin Catholic grad, recruiting was nonexistent there. With that said I know it happens at others Catholic schools with it being real bad in the east. With that said you guys are extremely naive if you don’t believe public recruit too. Terry Smith had kids from Wilkinburg, West Mifflin, Penn Hills, and Keystone Oaks move into the great educational power that is Gatway. Ranked 272 out of 459 districts in this state. Let’s not forget the Berwick teams of the 90’s were 20 year old Philadelphian Gus Felder happened to show up amongst other players. My point is that it happens both ways so quit making it a public vs private debate.

  497. Darrin says:

    That is a very good point from the article,@Billy Splain mentioned, Pop Warner Coaches. They play a very big part in the process, it also includes a ” go between” in most cases. I know that some of these coaches at Private Schools foster relationships with Youth Coaches, particularly the ones who coach in very powerful areas and leagues. I actually had this explained to me by a fellow coach who’s brother coached at a private school. Then there always has to be the ” go between” who does the speaking with parents and relaying of messages or promises. I’m in no way saying this happens at all privates or catholic schools, because it doesn’t. But the ones that do recruit, usually do it in the manner I just spoke of. Not all Pop Warner or Youth Coaches do this either, but this DEFINITELY goes on, I could name several coaches and situations from my years coaching HS Football. It is not ALL, however where there is smoke, there is usually fire!

  498. Darrin says:

    That’s all you really can do my friend, accept it for what it is. Because it’s not changing anytime soon. I know of a few “feeder” programs that are very similar to what you mentioned in your previous post. I also know that some places and programs are more into it than others, it is well known in the coaching circles here in the WPIAL! Here in District 7 it is not as prevalent as in the East. I feel that the talent is spread out here in the West, not to mention that there is a ton of talent here in the WPIAL. The amount of talent in Dist.7 and the fact that it is well spread out, are the major reasons that it does not cause the fierce debate as in the East. Public schools in the WPIAL experience a great deal of success, I think that the Privates dominate the East, especially in the Philly area.

  499. Phil says:

    Darrin –
    Agree with you 100%. May I add a quick note. In the Harrisburg area there is a Midget/Pony League team called the Holy Name Jets. They have top notch coaches that would be the envy of most midget programs. The majority of the kids, from what I understand, live in the Palmyra, Lower Dauphin, and Susquehanna Twp. School Districts. However, many of the best players appear to end up at Bishop McDevitt. My point is that you don’t hear much complaining because people accept it and move on.

  500. Darrin says:

    In regards to the article that @Billy Splain referenced, the situation is what it is and is not changing anytime soon. That’s why I don’t participate in the debate over public vs. private, everybody knows what is going on, if you don’t then you are choosing to ignore what everybody else knows! The rules are not changing, the PIAA is not going to put privates in a separate class, I refer to the President of the PIAA’s comments during the AAA State Championship Game. That’s the reason I do not waste my breath on “if” there is “recruiting” or there is an advantage, because things are not changing anytime soon!

  501. Billy Splain says:

    interesting comment from Rivals Mike Farrell: … /23612271/
    “”A lot of these guys, especially at the private school levels are recruiting players at the sixth and seventh grade levels. Everyone in recruiting is going younger, all the way to relationships with Pop Warner coaches.”
    no comment, just found that statement interesting..have at it

  502. Billy Splain says:

    welcome to the site Ellis…We’ll be watching, keep us updated!

  503. Ellis thrift says:

    Norwin pa freshman tevin washington will b a imoact player for the knights this season i really look fir big things from this kid

  504. Billy Splain says:

    thanks, will get this on our camps/clinic page

  505. Brad Orlando says:

    Erie Area Coaches Clinic
    When: March 7th 8:00a.m. – 3:00p.m.
    Where: Avalon Hotel, downtown Erie
    Cost: $25/coach, $150/staff includes 7 hours of instruction, lunch and adult beverages/social
    Who: Division 1,2 and 3 college speakers
    over 150 high school coaches
    Contact Brad Orlando,, 814-873-6664 or Matt Melle:
    brochure to follow

  506. Mike F says:


    Thanks for the clarification, I thought they did looks like I was wrong.


    I am a catholic grad and I think at least on the western side of the state people make too big of a deal about recruiting. I understand it may be a legimate concern out east, but the west don’t have those same problems. There may be some recruiting at PCC or ECP but no more than publics. The biggest case of recruiting gone wrong was the 90s Berwick teams.

  507. Billy Splain says:

    let’s talk about this:

  508. Darrin says:

    Yes the improved interaction is very nice, glad to see it! I have told all my fellow Coaches and HS Football nuts to check it out and join in! Like to see us get on Par activity wise w the Eastern site!

  509. Joel says:

    MIKE F. – No. District 10 does not have a bye week in between District and State playoff games.

  510. Phil says:

    Glad we have some interaction going here. Looking forward to lots of discussion and people doing some team evaluations from each district at some point. It took the west till November to get 30 comments last year. Good job out there!!

  511. Mike F says:

    Phil, I respect your opinion, but we are defiantly going to be agreeing to disagree on this topic. I simply do not see a reason to do it, as I said just because others are doing it does not make it right. I am glad I found this site as I do look forward to having farther discussions with you guys on various topics in the future.

  512. Phil says:

    I’m not opposed to 5 classes. I just think Pa needs to do something and 6 is better. Part of the reasoning is that it’ll bring more parity as far as enrollment, and in large part, the number of players opposing each other. I agree you are always going to have schools on the border one way or another, but it’s one thing being a school on the low end of the scale, having 144 teams with greater enrollment (4 classes) as opposed to the low end and having only 96 teams with larger enrollment (6 classes). Another reason is just to catch up with the rest of the country. I do think 6 would be perfect for us. Some states have 7 or 8, but I think that is too many especially when changing from 4 classes. Also, going to five classes with the mindset of eventually going to six would just create a lot of needless extra work from the district level all the way to the PIAA level.

    Mike, if you click on extras at the top of the screen, then click on archives and look for the only Phil there, you will see the article I wrote about the topics we’ve been discussing, “Time for PA to go to 6 Classifications”. It gives some statistics which may (or may not) surprise you when comparing PA to the rest of the country. Don’t want to repeat here as it is a little lengthy. It also gives more info on how the success factor works. Thanks. And thanks also for your insight.

  513. Mike F says:


    That is a tough one that could go either way. Let’s talk about SF this coming season. They lose a lot and will probably make the WPIAL playoffs but won’t go far imo. So putting them in AAA for past success could be punishment for being successful. I say the school should choose like they currently do if they want to move up. They would know if they have the talent to succeed.

    The other side of this is Tyler Boyd’s Clairton. I really believe they could have competed in AA those years, as they probably had the best defensive backfield in the country those years. It simply was the best small school team I have ever seen. Now if they were to play the AAA or AAAA champs that year on any given Friday they may have been capable of pulling off the upset. Playing a full season in AAA or AAAA they would be lucky to field a team come playoff time because they would have lacked depth and linemen.

    So basically I am torn on this suggestion. I see both sides but not sure what is better.

    Phil, maybe you missed it but I would like to hear your input on the question I had below.

    If the PIAA must add classes why go straight to 6, why not try 5 first and see how that goes? It would probably make a smoother transition.

  514. Phil says:

    Great points guys! Mike, we’ll just have to agree to disagree about the number of classes. And that name, Jaynes, sounds familiar, but honestly it’s been over three years ago and I am not real good with names. To Darrin’s point, always wondered why PIAA never allowed spring football when so many other states do allow it. Hey, what do you guys think of the success factor that the state of Indiana uses. They award points on a 2 year basis and if you make the finals two years in a row winning at least once you move up a class. Indianapolis Cathedral won states twice at Quad A and had to move up, then they won twice at 5A. They move to 6A this year and they are chomping at the bit to see how they do. I think of Clairton, So. Fayette, and Wood right now in PA. A few years back you can throw Berwick, So. Columbia, and maybe Rochester in that category. Can’t be too much fun for Clairton’s kids to beat everyone by 60 and only play a half. Any opinions on that idea? This may be talked about by the PIAA at some point down the road.

  515. Mike F says:

    Darrin, we don’t even have to go crazy with spring football either to get better results. Make it three weeks with the first week helmets only and 7 on 7 against another school. The 2nd and 3rd weeks full pads and do a 10 play scrimmage set up both weeks. The first scrimmage 60 plays varsity (30 offense/30 defense) and 40 jv plays (20/20). The second scrimmage bump it up to 100 plays varsity and 50 jv. The results come fall would be dramatic that first season and totally unbelievable after the first freshman become seniors.

  516. Darrin says:

    I hear your points, the bigest one that I agree with my friend is Spring Football! As a Coach in the WPIAL who has former teammates that Coach outta state, its a huge disadvantage to our athletes and teams. Having that time does so much to develop are athletes further as well as produce a higher quality team! I would Love to have Spring Football here, as would most (if not all) Coaches! I do not see it happening anytime soon, HS Fball is huge in PA, but in some ways very backward to other states. No spring ball is one of the bigger ways we are behind the curve!

  517. Darrin says:

    @Mike F
    Mike we are about same age, I played in WPIAL during mid- late 90’s. Actually Clairton is one of the smallest schools in WPIAL, id be willing to bet prob smaller than Port Allegany, if not it is w in a handful of kids for sure! Counting male enrollment from 9-12!

  518. Mike F says:

    Phil, I do not like more than four, but let’s say for argument sake that we have to add more classifications. Why 6? Why not first try five and see how that works, why turbo charge it to 6?

    Also a couple of points about your Dubois and Port Allegheny examples I would like to make. Theoretically, there will always be a team in the highest class that is smaller maybe even twice as small even with 6 classes. Should we add more classes to dilute it farther? Also Upper St Clair and McKeesport are smaller AAAA schools and that did not prevent them from winning and competing for titles in the last decade. Maybe they should complain less and work harder like McKeesport, USC, North Hills, all legendary programs who are now smaller in size and not at the top of their games anymore, but they are there to play hard and win. This is no shot at DuBois players either, with out ever being there I know it is the adults not players doing the complaining. It is always
    the “ADULTS ” who screw it up for the kids.

    I do not know much about Port Allegheny, how much smaller are they from Clairton? If they are around or bigger than Clairton then this goes back to my Ohio D7 champion example.

    Was the Pitt Ad Oval Jaynes? Not denying he said that and I would love a two week spring football season. I am just not convinced that more classes adds to more kids being recruited. How many A and AA kids get looked past because they only played A ball. Adding more classes only magnify that perception. With that said if you are good enough they will find you.

    As to the large crowds again two more games so yes more fans attending Hershy, but the regular season 6 classes solves nothing attendance wise.

  519. Phil says:

    Mike, you have some good points and these plus other questions/concerns will be addressed as this process goes forward. There are those who will never be convinced that changing to 6 classes is a good idea. Heck, I don’t like change, but I do think 6 classes is past due. And yes PA does need to catch up to the rest of the country by upgrading to 6 classifications. It’s just silly for a state as big as PA to still only have 4 classes just like those dinky states who don’t even have 100 teams.
    I thought the parity issue was pretty clear cut. But sometimes I’m not so clear as I think I am. I’ll use DuBois for an example. For years they have complained about going up against schools twice their size in the playoffs and with twice the number of players, i.e. St. College and McDowell. Six classes will eliminate that. It’s not dumbing down, just leveling the playing field slightly. Does that mean DuBois will now advance pretty far in the playoffs? Probably not, but they will be playing schools more their size with similar numbers of kids on the teams. Another example was the Port Allegheny team of a few years ago. They had a once in a life time group of players, but were in the same class as Clairton. Gave the Bears a tough time for awhile too. With 6 classes they probably end up in the finals and what a great experience it would have been for the players and community because it will probably never happen again! That’s what I’m talking about, teams that deserve to be there, but ran up against buzz-saws. It’s not like 4 more teams are ‘watering down’ the championships.
    I truly believe 6 classes does enhance recruiting based on conversations I’ve had with different people. One was an older gentleman who used to be AD at Pitt, but had moved down south. For the life of me I can’t remember his name. He said compared to southern states PA is really going down hill as far as recruiting. Three reasons: spring football, more kids concentrating on one sport(in this case football), and exposure by having more classes, recruiters can actually see more kids perform live in state championship games. And to that point, in the press box at the state championships this year there were coaches really working their phones upon seeing the one St. Joes player they had not seen before. (One was from Pitt)
    Given a 10 week season with 5 weeks of playoffs there will be a few less teams in 6 classes than our current set up. Hopefully 15 weeks in a 6 class scenario addresses the issue of too many teams, especially in the WPIAL where I agree with you and Darrin, there are teams in the playoffs that do not stand a chance. Wonder if the powers in the WPIAL can see that point and be more willing to go to 6 classes? Mike, I do agree with your other reasons on declining attendance, but it will rise with better matchups in a six class picture along with the shorter season and playing in nicer weather hopefully. I firmly believe that is what the PIAA wants, larger crowds.
    Finally, six classes will generate excitement for more kids and their fans without diluting anything. We are talking 4 more teams vying for a state title which is not even 1% out of 581 teams! Coaches across the state appear to be overwhelmingly for it as I believe the ADs will be too. It’s just the matter of convincing 2/3 of the PIAA Board.

  520. Mike F says:

    Darrin exactly my point. I played in the WPIAL in the mid-nineties. My freshmen/sophomore year only the top two teams per conference made the playoffs and it worked. My jr/sr year, the top 3 teams per conference made it with top team getting a bye. Not too bad but not good either. Somewhere along the lines they went to top 4 teams to get rid of bye week and it produced horrible 1st round playoff games since. Go back down to two teams and you eliminated a week. Also that would help other districts also. Doesn’t D10 take a bye week between their district championship and state playoffs because there is no one to play yet?

  521. Darrin says:

    @Mike F
    There is a part of your writing I completely agree with, the Playoff field is far to big. The games where it is the Top Seed vs “The Wild Card” team in AAA or AAAA is absolutely terrible, watching a top ranked team in the state play a team with 3-6 Record is awful. I know coaches on both side of that coin and both said their kids were just not into it, and it took so much selling to get the kids somewhat up for it! The attendance is absolutely horrible as well, better attendance at late August Scrimmages, because at least then fans want to see what their team is looking like or how much a certain player has improved. But some of these Playoff games leave absolutely nothing to wonder about or have some hope of victory, and the attendance proves it! Playoff field in WPIAL is diluted!!

  522. Mike F says:

    Phil, 90% of everything you said was assumption/opinion. The part that is factual (number of schools, number of of champs in other states) have no bearing on anything. You have an opinion that 6 classes are awesome I have an opinion that differed greatly.

    As I previously mentioned there are 7 state champs in Ohio and the smallest class champ beat the 5th and 6th smallest class handily during the season. Many also believe that They could have won D4 also. Many in Ohio believe that the D2 champ could easily handle the D1 champ. This is an every year occurance there. In PA, most years there is no debating that the higher class state team is better than the lower class team. Every now and then a Berwick from the 90’s or the Tyler Boyd lead Clairton makes you ask the question but that is the exception not the rule. If there are that many arguments in Ohio that tell me the system is diluted. If that is what you want PA to catch up too, God Bless you.

    As to your other assumptions I can easily counter every single one. It would not enhance recruiting, if you are good enough they will find you in PA. While this state may not be what it once was, we are not Maine or Alaska either. Look at Henry Hynoski, Tyler Boyd, etc. All were found but all had questions because of the level of competition they faced. Do you think shrinking it farther would help recruiting?

    Yes attendance has been declining, but the amount of classifications have no role with that. They are declining because there is less people in PA, it is also an elderly population that can’t make it to games. There are more entertainment options, and people don’t identify with there community like in the past. Those are the reasons football attendance is declining as they are declining in other states who have more classifications also.

    You lost me on the parity thing. God forbid if we tell little Johnny that the other team has some advantages over his team and his team needs to step it up. No lets dumb it down so little Johnny only needs to do the bare minimal.

    Now the season runs too long, ok I see your point there to shorten the season to a degree, but there are other ways to accomplish it then adding 2 more classes. How about eliminating some playoff teams. When I was in high school only the top two teams made the playoffs. Now it seems only the bottom two don’t make it. must we really reward average and below average with getting killed in a playoff game. Again I see the point about shortening the season but most that get a chance to play would not trade it for getting to basketball or wrestling practice a week early. Hell with the specialization of sports it is not that big of a number at all.

    Again attendance may go up but so does expenses. Not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of the accounting as I am not privy to that information. Also I am willing to bet that no more WPIAL championship at Heinz no more.

  523. Phil says:

    First of all, Mike, giving 6 championship trophies instead of 4 out of 581 teams is hardly an “everybody gets a trophy” move. The reasoning behind the move to 6 classes is based on helping the kids. More players experiencing the state title game should enhance recruitment, grow attendance (which has been declining), and bring more parity to the sport. Also, it gets the kids into basketball and wrestling seasons quicker so they do not miss as much because the season will be shortened. But, we as a state need to catch up with the rest of the country too. We have the fifth most schools playing football of all 50 states, yet we are one of only 15 who do not have at least 5 classes, joining the likes of the Dakotas, Maine, R.I., Vermont, Montana, Alaska, and Hawaii. (In fact 30 states have 6 or more!) As a matter of fact by going to 6 classes PA would still have the 5th largest ratio in the country of titles per number of teams. (1 per every 97) In addition, we are the only northern state playing into the middle of December. So shortening the season goes hand in hand with the 6 class move. The result will be increased attendance, not only due to there being 4 more teams playing for a title, but because the playoffs will not go as close to Christmas, will be played in nicer weather on average, and will not overlap other sports as much.

  524. Mike F says:

    I do not understand the desire to go to 5 let alone 6 classes? Please tell me how this is not an “everybody gets a trophy” type move. Four is more than enough classes. What are the enrollment breakdowns for this proposal? Look no farther than our neighbor to the west, they have 7 classes and the D7 (smallest class) champ would have won D4,D5,&D6 handily because it is so diluted (and Maria Stein is that good). So many saying can be used here, “if it is not broke , don’t fix it”, “solution looking for a problem “, “leave well enough alone “. By know I am sure you all getting my point. Seriously do you guys think this is a good idea? What is the motivation for this?

  525. Colin says:


    Thanks for the info on the 6 classes. Passing 30-3 is pretty strong. The last time an expanded class proposal was voted on do you know what voting numbers where? I wonder how PSFCA voted last time? Be interesting to see if it passed as strongly as this vote did

  526. Darrin says:

    Good to hear from you my friend. I always enjoy your input on the game we all love. I am just starting to get back to posting regularly, I have been figuring out my Coaching situation for next season. You know me Colin, I do not take part in the Public vs Private debate that has dominated the Eastern board. Everybody knows what goes on, if they dont, they are just in denial. The Head of PIAA said they are not making a seperate Division for Privates, so it’s just not worth arguing. Plus some of the people get involved in name calling and taking things way to seriously! I just want to talk about good teams and players, with fellow posters like you who always have good insightful posts. I am compiling my top teams and players for each Classification, will also include some “Sleeper” Teams to look out for. I just need to speak with a few of my fellow Coaching friends to complete the breakdown on the WPIAL teams n players to watch in’15!

  527. Colin says:


    Thanks for the Clairton info. Though I whole heartedly disagree that they did not receive a 1 year playoff ban at least the PIAA and D7 moved quickly on a decision. In the end hopefully lessons are learned and the door is closed on that ugly incident.

  528. Darrin says:

    Yes I did know of the vote in regard to 6Classes. I will hav my list of Teams and Players to watch compiled soon here. It will be much more in depth than the previous list of a few teams and players in each Class to watch, it will have teams and players from each Class & some Sleeper Teams as well. Have to speak with some fellow coaching friends of mine and my in depth list shall be done! Additionally I wanted to let you know Phil, Clairton will be permitted in the PIAA Playoffs this year. The team made a video taped apology and also wrote a letter of apology. So whether people agree with it or not they are able to participate in ’15 PIAA if they qualify. Was not sure if you knew that or not, I try to keep ya in the loop back here in the WPIAL my friend!

  529. Phil says:

    By the way, did anyone know that last Friday the directors of the PSFCA voted overwhelmingly (30-3) in favor of expanding from 4 to 6 classes and shortening the season by one week? As a result the PIAA recommended it move to the strategic planning committee. Then in March there will be a meeting with the ADs informing them of the progress, etc.

  530. Phil says:

    Thanks Kmac. My wife and I took in WC Rustin and D. East at Downingtown 2 years ago, so if we get to the Lancaster area again in the fall of 2015 maybe D. West or Coatesville would be a destination for a Friday night.

  531. Kmac says:


    As a (far) eastern guy (I see the Delaware River out my front door)I would like to travel more myself, but the passing years have restricted that too much. I think that in the District One 4A which is what I follow, Pennsbury, North Penn, Upper Dublin,Downingtown West, and Coatesville will all be worth the ticket. Of course there will be surprises as always, and disappointments as well. These are Suburban One and Ches Mont schools and the Central League and Pioneer Athletic League will also produce a couple of top teams as always.

  532. Phil says:

    Very true. Could not have said it better. I’d like to know about various teams and players from all the districts in order to plan on where I might like to travel in the upcoming season. Usually see a couple D-7 and D-6 games each year along with a few D-9/D-10. Even been known to go to out east occasionally.

  533. Darrin says:

    Well Phil it is very different back here for a number of reasons. First and most importantly the talent in the West ( Dist. 7 ) is more spread out, and there appears to be more high caliber athletes around the WPIAL, or at least enough to go around. I dont do the Public vs Private debate because it is just not worth wasting my time. Everybody knows what goes on, if you dont then you are simply in denial. There are more than enough kids to go around in the WPIAL, that is why I believe you dont see the strong emotion stirred up from Public vs Private in Dist. 7. I mean it is what it is, if you watched PCN during the AAA State Champ. Game the Head of PIAA said they are not making a seperate Class for Privates. Thats why I do not understand why all the people in the East get so fired up. It is not changing and everybody knows what goes on, so they should focus on talkin about players and teams to watch!

  534. Phil says:

    Thanks Darrin, appreciate your comments on D-7. Very insightful. Not to copy the east, but do you have any thoughts on the public vs. private issue. Just doesn’t seem to ignite the passion in the west like it does down east. Maybe because it is not much of an issue out here in the west.

  535. Darrin says:

    I have given my outlook on Dist. 7 teams to watch and some players to watch as well. Making my list of top 20 players to watch for ’15 season, hopefully we will get some feedback and interaction on those topics!

  536. Phil says:

    Hey guys, the east has over 100 comments and we only have 8 (9 now). Of course they appear to be arguing mostly about public and private (Catholic) schools. But hey, let’s hear from each district and who may be the top teams, who may be a sleeper, and even talk about individuals who may have a big impact next year. I’ve taken a shot on top teams by class for 2015 based on my limited resources.

  537. Mark says:

    Come playoff time, only one WPIAL team survives, correct? They will probably be playing St. College, who I also hear is hoping to contend. Lots of underclassmen on a pretty talented D returning for them, and a stud RB. Should be fun to watch, even though it’s far in the future.

  538. Darrin says:

    You are correct bout Pine -Richland, kids name is Phil Jurkovec and he is an incredible athlete! Woodland Hills has some awesome D1 skills and Linemen, however they need to finish as strong as they start. A fellow Coaching friend of mine has told me that North Allegheny has reloaded, they played very well at the end of last year. They cd make a very nice run in ’15. I would also look at Mckeesport to be very strong, they hav the Hudson kid back as well as some VERY good underclassmen coming up. Plus they run the Flexbone which is tremendously hard to prepare for, and George Smith is an excellent Coach! In AAA as I stated earlier watch out for Thomas Jefferson and W. Allegheny. Both of those teams return a great deal of talent and have a great mix of talented skills and nasty physical O-Linemen!

  539. Phil says:

    Mark, couple other comments. Technically, D-3 is in the west for Quad A, but this is the western site and for now I’ll stick to those teams I consider actual western PA teams. Just a quick note on the AAAA teams for now. Talked about St. College, but Woodland Hills has some really good D-1 talent for next year. They have yet to win a state title, but always seem to be in the hunt. P-R has some talent coming back plus I hear they have a young QB who is has the makings of being phenomenal. NA and PCC are so well coached they just reload practically year in and year out.

  540. Phil says:

    Typically western Pa is not very strong in AAAA outside of the WPIAL. Sources tell me that St. College may be pretty good next year, but not sure about McDowell or McLane up in D-10. DuBois will probably go 8-2, but due to a weaker schedule never they never go anywhere in the playoffs. To the AD’s credit the Beavers have been trying to upgrade. Having Prep, McLane, and Mifflin Co. on the schedule helps, but week in and week out they are not tested.

  541. Mark says:

    Why only one non-WPIAL school in Quad A? It’s a good list for sure I’m just wondering your thoughts on each team.

  542. Phil says:

    Here’s my list for 2015 in the western part of PA:
    Quad A – Woodland Hills, Pine-Richland, North Allegheny, Central Catholic, and State College
    Triple A – West Allegheny, Thomas Jefferson, Erie Cathedral Prep, and Somerset
    Double A – South Fayette, Aliquippa, Tyrone, Hickory, Bedford, and Karns City
    Single A – Clairton (if PIAA allows them in the playoffs), Penns Manor, Berlin Bros., Clarion, and Sharpsville

  543. Billy Splain says:

    2015….let’s get this thing going!

  544. David Mika says:

    Happy New Year!